[Taken in Paris (France) - 17May08] (image found here)This is just one more example of what sort of asshole men there are out there. And unfortunately there are some jerk women in this mix too. Anti-lesbian misogyny, ageism, and size oppression are clearly not bounded by gender. What especially "striking" about their CRAP is how for them to find not-young, not-thin white hetero men unattractive they have to compare them to white lesbian women who are, in the examples linked to, are generally heavier and older as well. Hmmm: I think far too many white hetero men are fucking ugly (mostly in the soul area) without being compared to anyone at all.
I found this CRAP on the blog Feed Your ADHD, and it links to a really stupid blogpage that only exists to mock women, particularly lesbian women, older women, and heavy women.
Here's the post--go there if you want to be repulsed by white men and women:
http://feedyouradhd.blogspot.com/2009/10/men-who-look-like-old-lesbians.html
Here are their stupid-ass homophobic/heterosexist/misogynistic comments, followed by my reply. Another effort of spittin' in the wind?
15 Comments follow and can also be found here:
1. Blogger innominatus said...
Whole lotta Bad Friggin' Hair goin' on at that site!
October 12, 2009 12:08 AM
2. Blogger Matt said...
When I read this, I thought of how Andrea Dworkin allegedly died while eating a ham sandwich. That has to go down as one of the most ironic deaths in history. It's not at all related to the topic, but equally hilarious. :D
October 12, 2009 12:37 AM
3. Blogger Amusing Bunni said...
Those guys are just plain scary....I can imagine obummer and moobacha on there, if they are around that long...(I could say something here, but best not to)
October 12, 2009 12:59 AM
4. Blogger j summ said...
i think janet reno is a close match.
October 12, 2009 1:08 AM
5. Blogger Opus #6 said...
In a word
Eeeew!
October 12, 2009 1:14 AM
6. Blogger MK said...
You know Dave, i never thought of it like that, but you and that blogger have a damn good point.
October 12, 2009 6:51 AM
7. Blogger Woodsterman (Odie) said...
You need to add Al Frankin to that list. Stop the presses ... I just checked the site, and Al Frankin is there.
The best news of all ... I'M NOT THERE !
October 12, 2009 9:51 AM
8. Blogger LL said...
I never looked at it that way, but Moore does look like an old lesbian - so does Al Franken.
Odie, from your avatar (presuming that is what you REALLY look like - rofl) nobody would confuse you with an old lesbian.
October 12, 2009 11:05 AM
9. Blogger powdergirl said...
Thats hilarious! They really Do look like old lesbians! Especially M. Moore, I can totally see the guy wearing a playtex cross you heart bra to restrain his moobs.
Which is actually rather painful.
October 12, 2009 11:17 AM
10. Anonymous The Right Look said...
-lol-
Now that you mention it! He does!
Not that I agree with anything MM has to say, but I do have to give him a credit for sitting down on the Hannity program last week!
Very enlightening view of a libs mind set from the horses mouth.
-j-
October 12, 2009 2:14 PM
11. Blogger Red said...
First off "Ew." Secondly, "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA! Ew."
October 12, 2009 5:37 PM
12. Blogger Karen Howes said...
Gaaah, my eyes! WARN someone before you spring a picture of Michael the Hutt on us. Now I've lost my appetite for supper...
October 12, 2009 5:49 PM
13. Blogger BATS RIGHT, THROWS RIGHT *** said...
Where is Garrison Keillor?
Where is Janet Reno?
October 12, 2009 6:21 PM
14. Blogger Ron Russell said...
Michael, Janet, Nancy, and Al are all such common friendly sounding names---what happened to these "people". Doubt if they lived up to their mothers expectations. Parents always have such high hopes!!!!!!!!
October 12, 2009 6:34 PM
15. Blogger Julian Real said...
Hi folks.
Two things. I'm a white gay man and your anti-lesbian/woman-hating is rather pathetic, if you ask me.
Also, the rumor about a woman dying from eating a ham sandwich was Cass Elliott* in the 1970s, not Andrea Dworkin this decade.
Andrea D. died from a heart condition. I think it's called
"Having to hear the immature shit put out by the likes of you."
Try and pass through puberty soon, ok? Because right now you look like a group of stupid straight schoolboys.
October 12, 2009 11:20 PM
After I posted a few comments came rushing in to defend their turf, typically hateful and homophobic ones:
Blogger Dr. Dave said...
Oh...look...a white gay man named Julian. I would have never imagined seeing that in a million years.
Go spew your bullshit on someone else's pages.
October 12, 2009 11:35 PM
Blogger TexasFred said...
Julian Real said...
Two things. I'm a white gay man and your anti-lesbian/woman-hating is rather pathetic, if you ask me.
*****************
We didn't ask you anything...
No one cares too much if you're a goober smoocher either, I just hope you become HIV positive and pass it on to ALL of your faggot buddies...
And before you go off on that homophobe bullshit, NOPE, wrong, I am NOT a homophobe, I am not scared or threatened by you goober gobblers in any way, I just think you're a bunch of SICK perverts..
October 12, 2009 11:50 PM
Blogger Barking Spider said...
How the fuck is a website about men that look like lesbians anti-lesbian, ffs!! Only a lefty, who also happens to be gay, (Julian - yeesss, of course), could pervert what you said to mean the exact opposite, Dr. Dave. That's what lefties do - they also have no sense of humour whatsoever!!!
I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy this particular encounter over at Grumpy's last night, Dr. Dave - I won't say any more - that would spoil it for you! Have fun....
[website URL deleted here at A.R.P. by JR]
October 13, 2009 12:03 AM
Blogger Julian Real said...
Of course I'll have to explain this shit to you:
White het men look ugly all by yourselves! You don't need to be compared to any other demographic for that assessment. Y'all just need to look in the mirror. You know, the one that's been cracked for years from the ugliness of your ways of being.
P.S. Cass Elliott didn't die that way either. You stupid fucks.
October 13, 2009 12:28 AM
END OF POST.
These men are pretty dumb Julian, but hey, gay men who should know better are just as socially isolated from lesbians, and show no signs of wanting to be in lesbians in large groups. They have to be in control of the mic, and degrade women in drag queen shows.
ReplyDeleteThat's who men are, the mockers of women and lesbians. They don't care and don't want to know.
Hi Anonymous of Oct. 13,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment.
A story:
I have been known for wearing jeans, t-shirts, casual clothes, comfy clothes, nothing fancy.
I have always despised gay men's idea of what 'performing as' and 'dressing as a woman', or as 'a female impersonator' had meant and been in the queer circles I've been part of. I've always found it misogynistic and have said so to gay men and have refused to go to fundraisers or just social events in my community where there will be misogynistic/racist/classist drag performed or acted out.
I remember once a gay man asked me a question that seems to be "a right of passage question" among gay men: "Have you ever dressed up in drag?" I clarified: "Do you mean do I ever dress up like a woman?" The white gay man said "Yes." I responded, "I am right now." (Wearing t-shirt and jeans.) I told him this is how the women I know dress. He looked puzzled, but I think he got it. He especially got it when I said, "Oh, you mean do I like to dress up the way men imagine women to be that women never are?" Then added, "No, I haven't ever done that."
I remember, once upon a time, reading a fascinating essay by Marilyn Frye or another white lesbian feminist on men and misogynist drag. The author/philosopher noted that the way men portray women is the way men want women to be, which is partly a projection of some strange idea of who they don't get to be as men. She said something to the effect of "They made that idea of femininity up, it's theirs, it belongs to them, so let's let them have it. It has nothing to do with being a woman."
I pondered that a long time. Years. And then would see misogynist/racist/classist drag and would just be so disgusted and enraged. And I realised that while she's right in theory, it still needs to be called out in practice, in the world where it really does reinforce misogyny, racism, and classism in very harmful ways.
I am not in disagreement with you about the lack of support gay men have shown or show lesbians, or that gay men's misogyny and anti-lesbianism, and white middle class gay men's racism and classism is not kept in consciousness, let alone in check, generally, among gay men.
It's also the case that heterosexual men and women can be oppressive to me as a gay man: such as when a white heterosexual woman tells me not to call myself queer because she thinks the term is degrading to gay people. Right.
To any extent that anyone with privileges I do not have, who is heterosexist in oppressive ways to me and other queer people, as a queer person, I'm gonna call it out. I don't tend to find this among women across sexualities. I tend to find rampant homophobia among het men. And bizarre notions of what 'being lesbian' is, among heterosexual women, het men, and gay men.
To whatever extent any white person is racist, I'm gonna call it out. Same for sexism among men.
I do this knowing very well that I can be sexist, racist, classist, and everything else too except oppressive to straight men who share my privileges.
I'd be interested to know where you experience the worst of what heterosexism and misogyny/lesbophobia has to offer.
Yes, men mock women. And straights mock queers. And whites mock people of color all the damn time. And I'm paying attention to all of it. And I'm not letting men of color off because they're of color if they're being heterosexist or misogynistic. And I'm not letting white women off when they are racist and heterosexist.
The blue jeans story is an excellent example of clear thinking.
ReplyDeleteYou asked where the least sexist or homophic spaces are, and I'd have to say, all lesbian groups are the least sexist. Corporate male dominated industries are the most sexist, and also socially the creepiest for me to be in.
As far as gay men are concerned, I think they actually like the company of women, but only on THEIR own terms. So they don't really get to see the complexity of lesbians, because they are too self-centered to notice.
Straight women's business groups with no men in them are my favorite non-sexist places, and many women aren't as afraid of non-femme women as they once were. I'm also completely indifferent to straight female performance stuff, but intellectual women like my bluntness, and they like how I can fight back against insulting men.
They also know on some level that if it came down to a fight, I just kill the man and wouldn't stop until I did. Men sense this in me, they usually don't get too out of line. It's a form of mental violence I use all the time with men, it works.
Straight men really fear gay men sexually. This is huge with them, nervously they joke about gay men. They fear be treated the way they treat women ALL the time. Funny how they don't change just because of this.
If you have a group of smart people, the sexism will be non-existant if you have one gay man and say eight staight and lesbian women together in congenial conversation. Men one-on-one can have a perfect non-sexist meeting. Salesmen know how to not insult, because again, they want something.
Men will be good when they want something-- sex, the sale, money, access.... So I know they can do it, they just choose to be sexist idiots because they know their tongues will not be cut out or their ears chopped off if they goof up.
To me, the least I expect of men is langauge-- no sexism, no sexual talk, no stupid clueless references to lesbian life, that even they know is stupid.
But... and this I have often wondered, are men really that dumb or are they just pretending to be to make women mad? Is it real or is it pretend?
"That's who men are, the mockers of women and lesbians. They don't care and don't want to know."
ReplyDeleteOh ya and all women are feminazi bitches! Way to go classist racist bigoted pigshit!
Thanks for sharing that, Anonymous.
ReplyDeleteRe:
As far as gay men are concerned, I think they actually like the company of women, but only on THEIR own terms. So they don't really get to see the complexity of lesbians, because they are too self-centered to notice.
I've known gay men who remain good friends with heterosexual women and it seems pretty mutual. Especially if the gay man is a good listener, so she has someone to talk with about all the crap men toss her way.
But the only gay men I know who choose to be supportive of and friends with lesbian women are gay men who "get" feminism.
Re:
Straight women's business groups with no men in them are my favorite non-sexist places, and many women aren't as afraid of non-femme women as they once were.
I'm glad to hear that! It really seems like this society doesn't want to deal at all with the reality of non-femme women. It's astounding to me the pressure on heterosexual women not to "look like a dyke" as if that has "one look"!!! A female relative of mine, a heterosexual woman, often asks "Does this make me look dykey"? I don't hang out with her any more.
[...] and they like how I can fight back against insulting men.
They also know on some level that if it came down to a fight, I just kill the man and wouldn't stop until I did. Men sense this in me, they usually don't get too out of line. It's a form of mental violence I use all the time with men, it works.
That's awesome!
I think boys need to learn respect for girls as soon as they become aware they are being socialised to be boys.
Re:
Men one-on-one can have a perfect non-sexist meeting.
It surely helps to have a female-majority space, with a strong feminist presence!
Re:
Men will be good when they want something-- sex, the sale, money, access....
And so vicious when taking the same things.
Re:
So I know they can do it, they just choose to be sexist idiots because they know their tongues will not be cut out or their ears chopped off if they goof up.
Yes. There's simply no accountability. And that just seems so glaringly obvious. I think society actually expected feminists to educate boys, the progressive parts of society, that is. And it never considered: hey, maybe if men call each other our on their misogyny, they might not do it as much!!
Re:
But... and this I have often wondered, are men really that dumb or are they just pretending to be to make women mad? Is it real or is it pretend?
I've heard from some het men that they put on a persona when around other men, that is "cooler" more "emotionally distant" etc. And when they're alone with me, or with women and me, they relax and act far more human.
And some men are just jerks, skin to core.