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A question is asked by an Ignorant Man:
A question is asked by an Ignorant Man:
Open Question
Show me another»When is it OK to hate half the world's population?
Apart from when you are a feminist I mean:
'My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter."
Marilyn French; The Woman's Room (later, advisor to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.)
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman."
Catherine MacKinnon
"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it."
Former Congresswoman Barbara Jordan
"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release."
Germaine Greer.
"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience."
Catherine Comin, Vassar College. Assistant Dean of Students.
'My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter."
Marilyn French; The Woman's Room (later, advisor to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.)
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman."
Catherine MacKinnon
"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it."
Former Congresswoman Barbara Jordan
"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release."
Germaine Greer.
"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience."
Catherine Comin, Vassar College. Assistant Dean of Students.
- 12 hours ago
- - 3 days left to answer.
Additional Details
Dark Eyes said: "You take what 5 demented women said...and base that on an entire gender...? O.o I've seen these quotes hundreds of times on GWS... No one believes them..."
These demented women are mainstream feminists, particularly Catherine MacKinnon, who is credited with creating the sexual harassment paradigm and is a respected Ivy League professor.
Women like this are the intellectual foundations of the feminist movement.
These demented women are mainstream feminists, particularly Catherine MacKinnon, who is credited with creating the sexual harassment paradigm and is a respected Ivy League professor.
Women like this are the intellectual foundations of the feminist movement.
12 hours ago
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The question is answered by someone who is trying to clue the ignorant man above into something called the actual world of human events and oppression:
Oh please.
How ridiculous you and every other guy on Yahoo Answers is who trots out this same stuff over and over again across the Web.
I can find one thousand times more "quotes" from men, including from "sacred religious texts" that put down, insult, degrade, and are overtly hateful to women. Women are considered dirty and in some societies are forbidden to be social while having their periods. Thou shall not lie with a man as you would a woman. Why? Because men love women? You know why? Because to lie with a woman is considered degrading. Which gender is allowed to be priests? Women or men? How about the Pope? Women or men. Is that because women hate men?
Men's Rights guys want to delusionally pretend that a problem in the world is "women hating men", when everyone with a brain knows the institutionalized and interpersonal problem re: gender is MEN hating WOMEN. That hatred is expressing it in sexual harassment, rape, father-daughter incest, husbands and boyfriends beating up their wives/girlfriends, men molesting girls, men procuring women to "rent" them for sex, men drugging and date raping women, and on and on. Which gender burned women as witches? Men burned women. Which gender stones women to death? Men. Which gender is so devalued that infants are killed? Female infanticide is a major issue in the world, NOT male infanticide. Female genital mutilation means cutting out females' clitorises and sometimes sewing up their vulvas, to prove they are "pure" for their husbands. Do women cut off boys' penises and sew up their scrotums to preserve boys' "purity"? No.
Indigenous women in North America are raped... not by women, but by men, and 80% of the time, or more, it is white men. One in THREE Indigenous women in North America is raped. Now what kind of idiot thinks the dozen or so quotes you put up above equals all the atrocities I've just listed here?
You'd have to be one inhumane, unfeeling, uncaring jerk to think that all this equals a few "choice" quotes from women whose books are mostly out of print. And do you honestly think there aren't hateful things men say about women that can't be gathered up across the internet? Did you ever see what men say about women on pornography sites? How about what men who use women in prostitution call those women? How about what pimps call women?
Who controls media, globally, men or women? Men. Who controls the military and the police forces globally, men or women? Men. Who are the majority of Supreme Court Justices in the U.S.? Men. What gender has EVERY U.S. president been? Men. Who controls the medical and educational institutions? Men. Which gender has portraits lining the halls of the Academy in the U.S.? White men. Who is ordering the mass murder of men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan? Men. Which gender is getting raped wherever men have wars? Women.
Which gender sailed the seas and raped and slaughtered women? Men. Did women do this to men? No. Which gender sexually enslaved women? Men. Did women do this to men? No. Which gender forbid women to be considered anything other than chattel property, forbid women the vote, made it illegal for women to enter universities, and currently pays women less to do the same work as a man? White men. Have women done any of this to men? No.
Did a man shoot many women in a Montreal university twenty years ago, because he hated feminists, or did a woman shoot a classroom full of men? It was Marc Lepine who killed fourteen women. No woman has ever done this to men.
What planet ARE you living on? Why don't you get your head out of [the clouds] long enough to see what's really going on in the world? Why don't you just read THIS to get a grip on something called reality: http://radicalprofeminist.blogspot.com/2009/12/what-if-few-dozen-men-wrote-some.htmlSource(s):
http://www.amnestyusa.org/violence-against-women/maze-of-injustice/page.do?id=1021163
http://www.ovw.usdoj.gov/sexassault.htm
http://www.dianarussell.com/femicide.html
http://radicalprofeminist.blogspot.com/2009/10/broch-tzu-columbus-curse-on-columbus.html
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/marc_lepine/index.html
http://madshangi.blogspot.com/2010/02/owner-of-guru-gossip-blog-is-dumb-****.html
http://madshangi.blogspot.com/2008/11/****-feminists.html
http://radicalprofeminist.blogspot.com/2010/04/anti-dworkinites.html
Repeat the lie often enough and it becomes 'truth.' Which is precisely what this piece of propaganda is - lies purporting to be truth.
ReplyDeleteMisandry does not exist and has never existed but misogyny has existed for centuries and continues to exist, but because it is so 'natural' it becomes not misogyny but 'common sense' as defined by men for men's advantage and continued power over women.
Question? Why are men so obsessed with claiming 'misandry exists' is it because the focus must always be on men and their needs etc. Or is it because since misandry does not exist it has to be constantly promoted as existing. Or, to put it another way, men have to constantly tell themselves 'we are the only ones defined as human and we have to keep telling those non-human beings (women) their place lies firmly under the feet of us superior human beings.'
This post is a little confusing to me, as I'm not sure who is saying what. However, I think there are a few things that need to be clarified. Discrimination and oppression can exist on multiple playing fields--institutional and individual being two main arenas.
ReplyDeleteResponding directly to the comment, I don't think anyone here would argue against the institutionalized misogyny that takes place on a daily level. However, misandry DOES in fact exist--regardless if you would like to believe that or not. All of the scenarios you brought up are culturally accurate, but that does not dismiss the fact that those same tools used to discriminate against women interpersonally are now also being used against men.
I'd also like to point out the implicit heterosexism within your entire argument. Misogyny and misandry operate in a much more complicated fashion within LGBTQ communities. The liberation of women across the world will not be gained by people running around mocking and discrediting the male perspective but will be bridged through a dialogue where both sides listen to one another.
Again, no one is denying the reality of institutionalized misogyny. That is a very real thing. However, to dismiss misandry entirely as have a social reality is to do a disservice to gender equality in its entirety.
Thank you, Jennifer!
ReplyDeleteExactly.
Now, a question: It is very clear that Antifeminist MRAssholes have made a concerted effort to promulgate their CRAP on "Yahoo Answers" specifically. What I've noticed in the last half year, some feminists have begun to show up and challenge these fools. But the fools are still spewing their lies-as-truth.
Do you, Jennifer, or does any other reader here, have suggestions for how to get more truth and less lies out there into the Yahoo Answers community? Clearly the MRAs feel they can influence public opinion by going after internet communities like that one.
I'm open to ideas, course of action, etc. Should the MRAs be reported as trolls promoting sexist bigotry on Yahoo Answers, for example?
Hello Johnny,
ReplyDeleteI suspect my reply may be in two parts, so please reply to the questions in both parts, if you would.
First, I just clarified (I hope) the issue of who is saying what. Thanks for alerting me to than unclarity! I appreciate it.
In response to this:
However, I think there are a few things that need to be clarified. Discrimination and oppression can exist on multiple playing fields--institutional and individual being two main arenas.
This blog makes that explicitly clear. So no disagreement there.
Responding directly to the comment, I don't think anyone here would argue against the institutionalized misogyny that takes place on a daily level. However, misandry DOES in fact exist--regardless if you would like to believe that or not.
Not woman-produced, woman-manufactured, woman-controlled, woman-regulated "misandry". "Misandry"--or men hating men, is something that MEN produce, manufacture, control, and regulate. I wouldn't use the term "misandry" for that, as it implies, in general usage, that that haters are not men. So it is a misleading term. Internalised and externalised institutionalised and interpersonal aggression, harm, and violence among men is what I understand you to be talking about. Do I have that right?
Are you talking about harm that women do to men institutionally? And, again, I'm NOT referring to white women oppressing men of color, or heterosexual women oppressing lesbian women and gay men. I'm speaking here about people within the same groups, with the only structural/political difference being gender.
All of the scenarios you brought up are culturally accurate, but that does not dismiss the fact that those same tools used to discriminate against women interpersonally are now also being used against men.
ReplyDeleteI'd be interested to hear you make that case. Which same tools are "used [by women] to discriminate against men" of the same ethnic or cultural or economically classed group? I look forward to reading your answer.
I'd also like to point out the implicit heterosexism within your entire argument.
Okay, I'm listening.
Misogyny and misandry operate in a much more complicated fashion within LGBTQ communities.
I don't accept that there is such a thing as "misandry" as MRAs make up and misuse that term.
And, honestly, you saying the word a few times isn't enough to make it exist in reality. So you're going to have to do a lot more than mention a term. I mean some racist can say "Black supremacy exists too" but that doesn't mean it's so.
Again, I welcome you to make the case--where's the systemic and systematic harm and discrimination? Where's the evidence of on-going atrocity, the piles of abused and/or dead bodies?
The way MRAs delusionally speak about "misandry" makes me think of White Nationalists proclaiming that Jews, not white Christians, run the U.S. Do you also believe that to be true? I'm not saying you're an MRA. But, just to find out, are you?
So far, Johnny, you've made absolutely no case at all for it existing within or outside the LGBTI community.
And, are you queer or gay or SGL? Just wondering. I want to know what your political location and position is, structurally, relative to your statement. Are you inside the LGBTI community as an LBGTI person, as someone who is threatened by heterosexual men, covertly or overtly, because you are not heterosexual?
The liberation of women across the world will not be gained by people running around mocking and discrediting the male perspective but will be bridged through a dialogue where both sides listen to one another.
You're not making any case for "the other side". What other side? The other side that says we live in a Black supremacist society? The other side that says lesbians and gay men ALSO oppress heterosexual people institutionally? What are you speaking about, please? I'm genuinely not understanding what you are getting at.
Again, no one is denying the reality of institutionalized misogyny. That is a very real thing. However, to dismiss misandry entirely as have a social reality is to do a disservice to gender equality in its entirety.
What misandry, Johnny? Describe it--where is it, where does it live, how does it manifest institutionally and interpersonally as women's atrocities against men, as women oppressing men? Please--offer up the evidence. Otherwise you sound like a White Nationalist to me, speaking of things that simply aren't socially true or existent.
Hi, Julian I've just read your question and I see the problem as one concerning resources. The sad fact is there are innumerable MRAS who have nothing better to do with their time than promulate cyberspace spreading their lies.
ReplyDeleteWhereas women of course are far too busy struggling each day to survive! A generalisation I know but also true.
I do know feminists personally who've tried to challenge the misogyny and lies and reported these fools to the providers but as usual nothing happens and the lies remain in place. I am tempted to think of conspiracy theories but I'll settle for the reality - which is the male-dominant owners of these sites such as Yahoo answers are not interested in the 'truth' only in the male-defined truth which is totally different from a woman-centered one.
It's a question of numbers - feminists are not as abundant as the MRAS because fact is many feminists do not have the time to commit to spending hours and hours trolling websites in order to promote MRA lies.
Julian you do excellent work challenging these bigoted trolls but you can only do so much. So, what do we feminists do given we don't have the time to visit all the websites promoting lies about women and feminism. Well, we speak to individuals face to face and challenge our work colleagues/relatives etc. Yes I know we can't reach everyone but we do what we can.
I take comfort in knowing these MRAS are very, very frightened creatures because as always maintaining power and dominance over a subordinate group is a 24/7 occupation. The MRAS must never 'take their eyes off the ball' because you never know what these radical feminists will do next.
Hi Jennifer,
ReplyDeleteYes, much agreed: clearly privilege shows up in the lives of these MRAs in the form of either free time, or desk jobs at which they can slack off and just go to places like Yahoo Answers and post their CRAP.
Your closing remark has inspired a new Real-ism phrase, "Men can't take their eyes off their balls".
Thanks as always for your feedback, Jennifer.