I believe most radical feminists are religious women of color. Given that it appears that the person in the photo is wearing a taqiyah, I'll assume he's male. (The only other major clue to me, as a U.S. whiteboy who is largely ignorant about Muslim cultures and people is that there's a Star Wars thing against the wall--and I can count on half of one hand the number of women I know "into" Star Wars to that extent. I'm sure not "into" Stars Wars and boy-toy video games and such, and I'm a boy.) So going on the assumption that the person above is male, I don't believe most radical feminists are men!!! And I don't believe there are that many pro-radical feminist men, but let's hope I'm wrong about that. At least the man above is pro-radical feminist! The image comes from here: http://photobucket.com/images/radical%20feminist/.
Hey, I've never met a male feminist in my life, much less a male radical feminist. I've met a few men who call themselves feminists, or make inane comments like "I voted for Hillary Clinton." I think what they mean by this, is they don't intend to change THEIR lives or inconvenience themselves, but what they are saying is "we are not overt womanhaters, we just do nothing to change the system. We do the same things that all male supremacists do, but we don't say bad things about women in public." That's what they really mean. Challenge them and shove them around a bit, and they capituate into plain old men pretty damn fast. It's just who men are.
ReplyDeleteIt's just who men are who don't wish to make radical feminist values and activism the center of their lives.
ReplyDeleteAnd very few men do because it means being accountable to feminists and not acting like a sexist jerk.
And since I don't know the young man in the photo above, I can't possibly assess whether he is or is not radically profeminist. I hope he is.
ReplyDeleteAnd if the young man in the photo finds this post: I welcome you to comment. (Cool t-shirt!)
I think radical feminism is a very difficult philosophy, one of THE most hated ways of life in the world. Nothing out there gets as much bad press as radical feminism, except maybe neo-nazisim, and oddly enough many male pundits actually compare radical feminists to NAZI. I don't think Hilter was a radical feminist by the way.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, the t-shirt is well intentioned, but in terms of social change, I don't believe the oppressors ever liberate the oppressed willingly. They wouldn't know how.
How it is that men, almost exclusively "educated" white class-privileged ones in my experience, can get by with comparing radical feminism to neo-Nazi beliefs and activities is beyond me. Nowhere in antifeminism do men show such profound social and political ignorance.
ReplyDeleteWell, there are MANY ways men do show such ignorance, such as not realising women are full human beings who do not exist "for" men, but really. Can they AT LEAST notice that all the most powerful Nazis in history were WHITE publicly heterosexual MEN? And as YC has reminded me, Nazis HATE feminists. Now I guess we have to expect that someone believing in "level playing fields" will come back and say "well some feminists hate Nazis too!" Which I think makes the point rather well about the limits of liberalism.
If there were a "Political History Stupidity Award" I'd hand it out to all the whiteboys who use terms like "feminazi". Yes, boys, you really do deserve that award.
Let's see, what should it be? Instead of gilded it should be blanched, so maybe an all white version of the Oscar, except we could call it "The Adolph".
Hi Dog16arma,
ReplyDeleteI think radical feminism is a very difficult philosophy, one of THE most hated ways of life in the world. Nothing out there gets as much bad press as radical feminism, except maybe neo-nazisim, and oddly enough many male pundits actually compare radical feminists to NAZI. I don't think Hitler was a radical feminist by the way.
I have far less knowledge about the world than you do. So I'll limit my comments/responses to what I see here in the U.S.
I think U.S. Black Nationalist life and philosophy has an does get VERY hated, as did the Black Panther Party's, in the white male supremacist media, and in the minds and bodies of white people. And I think pro-Indigenist life and philosophies of American Indians here is deeply despised by dominant Amerikkka, to the degree that they (the people, the philosophies, the politics) are NEVER in the media! I do remember white non-Indigenist and non-Muslim feminism being in the media, with white radical feminists (who didn't incorporate anti-racism or Muslim experience in their feminism when on TV) speaking for themselves (in the '80s and early '90s). (Dworkin, of course, did have an anti-racist analysis integrated into her radical feminism, but never really got the air time to get into it, although Andrea always spoke about women of color when speaking about pornography, which is what she was usually invited to speak about, as if she never wrote about anything else! Like white male supremacy!) But in the 1980s, except for seeing Alice Walker a bit on TV, there were NO women of color to be found, in my recollections. I have since seen bell hooks in the dominant media but only on Charlie Rose's PBS talk show. And just about anything "pro-Muslim"--life and philosophy--gets grossly distored and despised in the dominant media, of course, especially since that fateful day in September 2001 when some non-Muslim-acting terrorists gave the U.S. a bruised eye.
How completely, thoroughly misogynistic that approximately the same number of women, in the U.S., are murdered by their husbands and boyfriends, and their killers are never, ever referred to as terrorists. If those men aren't terrorists what are they?
I'd say, and I wonder if you'd agree, that any and all radical lesbian feminist and lesbian separatist philosophies (of any ethnicity and region) are about as hated, if not more so, to the degree any critic knows what they really are. Same holds true for the values and lives of non-lesbian and non-separatist radical feminists. Here in the U.S., a supposedly "academically educated" country, I feel like the media and men themselves have done a "good job" of making the populace think there's more wrong with advocating radical feminist activism and envisioning a future free from patriarchal harm than there is advocating to keep the status quo just as is: systematic rape and all the other expressions and MANifestations/man-infestations of white heterosexual male supremacy.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, the t-shirt is well intentioned, but in terms of social change, I don't believe the oppressors ever liberate the oppressed willingly. They wouldn't know how.
I'd say, and I wonder if you'd agree, that U.S. radical lesbian feminist and lesbian separatist philosophies (among women of any races and ethnicities) and ways of living are about as hated, if not more so--to the degree any critic knows what they really are. To me, the same holds true for radical feminism in terms of "critic comprehension".
Here in the U.S., a supposedly "academically educated" country, I feel like the media and men themselves have done a "good" [patriarchally racist capitalist] job" of making the populace think there's more wrong with advocating white and/or WOC radical feminist activism and envisioning than there is advocating to keep the status quo just as is: systematic rape and racism and all the other expressions and MANifestations/man-infestations of white heterosexual male supremacy.
Anyway, the t-shirt is well intentioned, but in terms of social change, I don't believe the oppressors ever liberate the oppressed willingly. They wouldn't know how.
I agree about white heterosexual male oppressors not having a clue about how to liberate anyone, including themselves from the abuses to humanity in "using" internet pornography.
For me, the intention of the t-shirt is to promote radical Muslim feminism and to bust myths that there isn't such a thing at all! (It is certainly extremely invisibilised here in the dominant U.S. I've never in my life seen an "out" radical Muslim feminist on TV, speaking for herself.
As for Muslim men wearing such a shirt, I'd say that's for radical Muslim feminists to say whether that's a good idea or not. For me--and I believe for you (correct me if I'm wrong), the group of women involved with the men directly and culturally get to call the shots about what is and isn't good for feminism.
When I wrote this:
ReplyDelete"How completely, thoroughly misogynistic that approximately the same number of women, in the U.S., are murdered by their husbands and boyfriends, and their killers are never, ever referred to as terrorists. If those men aren't terrorists what are they?"
I mean women killed ANNUALLY in the U.S. by husbands and boyfriends. Although I think that figure is way too low. Why not include all the women in prostitution who are killed by pimps? And what media pays attention to poor women who are murdered by the men in their lives?
Let's list the statistics at the end of the year in the New York Times, total number of women murdered by their husbands, total number of pregnant women murdered by the husbands and boyfriends, total number of women raped by men, city by city town by town, and a special column, total number of battered or raped women who murder their attackers. We need to list this, and write about how women can fight the war on men, and stop being in denial about who is killing whom. Hey, I say the more women fight back, the better.
ReplyDeleteWhen men know that they might likely be killed for bugging women in any way, well, men, will simply back off. They only understand a gun in the face threat or simple declaritive sentences like: "sit, stay, down!"
Hi Dog16arma,
ReplyDeleteI COMPLETELY AGREE with your first paragraph. And it amazes me, astounds me, that there are not websites (well, that I'm aware of anyway!) that do precisely what you call for! It is so needed, so obviously needed to make men's war against women more tangible, at least in terms of statistics and story after story that becomes undeniable truth.
When men know that they might likely be killed for bugging women in any way, well, men, will simply back off.
Or gang up on women. I don't assume it will always play out well for women to do this, but I certainly hope it does.
They only understand a gun in the face threat or simple declaritive sentences like: "sit, stay, down!"
Well, that's your view and you're welcome to it. My secondary problem with it is that it's dehumanising and simplistic. My first problem with it is that you don't acknowledge your own complicity in violence against women. You seem to think it only shows up in what men do to women they see, know, or socially interact with. White support for white supremacy kills women of color worldwide.
If you're white, you're a killer of women of color. Period. If one is a man, one is a killer of women, period. We don't exist in the world as just "individuals". This is, for me, a very basic radical notion: we are all both bound to and complicit with systems and structures of oppression in ways we don't often acknowledge when we're the ones with the privilege.