Wednesday, March 24, 2010

Fidelbogen is an Antifeminist Asshole who actually says this: 'The statement that "men can stop rape" is an incoherent semantic muddle, and no person who wishes to be taken seriously ought to say such a thing.' Really, Fidelbogen says this--and means it!

[image is http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_LiB8itD3Iec/SAIyM1PzB9I/AAAAAAAAAEo/YEXHMhWtbK4/S210/MEN_CAN_STOP_RAPE1.giffrom here]

Don't know Fidelbogen? Good. You're lucky. But for those who do wish to know about him and his, errrm, irrational/misogynistic and antifeminist political perspectives and allegiances with uberprivileged whiteboys, see here and here. The latter blog is called... get ready to laugh:

"The Counter-Feminist"
The description is as follows:

"The female-supremacist hate movement called 'feminism' must be opened to the disinfecting sunlight of the world's gaze and held to a stern accounting for its grievous transgressions."

The other blog is called "Counter-Feminist Information" or:

"CFI"
and its description is:

"Making a revolution by pitching the sugar-and-spice cargo overboard!"

He also pals around with the men of a rather bizarre collection of privileged and unapologetically and virulently racist, homophobic, misogynist, pro-patriarchal jerks at an online venue called "antimisandry.com". If that isn't reason enough to find someone politically illiterate and incompetent to comprehend horrible atrocities as such, well, you don't know what goes on at antimisandry.com. And good if you don't. It's a cesspool of political irrationality and intellectual illogic over there. You're about to witness some of that below, out of one of its members.
With his two blogs and his participation on that woman-hating website, you might better understand my lack of respect for anything this guy says.

[Note: below, Fidelbogen's writing is not in bold. My replies to him are in bold. We begin with Fidelbogen's opening remark:]

First off, this: "Men" do not rape. Men who rape, rape.

Fidelbogen, you're one stoopid fuck, let me tell you. If you knew how to read and comprehend the simplest things, this would help matters a lot. When radical feminists and this one radical profeminist writes "men rape" we mean, men--not women--rape. We mean the problem of RAPE belongs to MEN; that rape ought not be a matter for WOMEN to solve or stop. We mean RAPE is MEN'S responsibility, not WOMEN's. Got it? Is that clear enough for you?  You're semantically absurd revision isn't even on point. So according to your "logic", it's not men who commit warfare it's the men who commit warfare who are the men who commit warfare? So no one gets to notice that, well, MEN commit warfare? Please.


That is a critically important distinction,

For YOU, yes, because you don't fucking want to deal with the fact that it is OUR gender that rapes, and it is only OUR gender that can STOP rape. You'd rather segregate out "men who rape" as separate from the category "men". Sorry. That shit doesn't fly.

but it tends to get lost in the shuffle whenever a heated discussion is under way.

That's nonsense. For example, C. A. MacKinnon's writing on rape is as rational, reasoned, and clear as anyone's, and you and your white het male supremacist buddies just don't know how to read her correctly, because probably all you've read of her are three quotes making the rounds by fools like you, and at least one of them was never even stated by her.


Next: The statement that "men can stop rape" is an incoherent semantic muddle, and no person who wishes to be taken seriously ought to say such a thing.

I do, and I did, Fidelbogen. And if you don't want to take me seriously, well, big fucking deal. I don't respect you anyway.

More honesty and circumspection in the use of language is needed here.

Circumspection? You're breaking out the fifty cent words, eh? Is that supposed to make you sound... what? Reasonable? Rational? Smart? It does none of the above, because you've already shown yourself to be incapable of grasping the most basic things about radical feminist writings, out of willful ignorance, I'd wager.

Hint: try untwisting and parsing out the multiple threads of meaning contained in the phrase "men can stop rape." Then, decide exactly WHICH of those threads corresponds to what you are actually trying to say. Then. . . SAY it! Clearly, honestly, succinctly, unequivocally, unambiguously.

Okay. Here we go: MEN rape, not women. MEN who are fathers RAPE their daughters. MEN who organise for "FATHER'S RIGHTS" don't organise to stop men from raping their daughters. MEN who rape, often don't think they've done anything different than when they "have sex". Curious, eh? MEN are goddamned dishonest about what we do that IS RAPE, because we want to believe stoopid-ass CRAP like 99.99% of men DON'T rape. Which, if it weren't so ignorant and pro-atrocity, would just be laughable.

If you ever met ME, in the flesh, in the real world, I guarantee that you would absolutely NOT ATTEMPT the kind of mindfuck games that you routinely play behind the protection of your little cyber-mask.

Why don't you SAY WHAT YOU MEAN, Fidelbogen. Are you saying you're a fucking bully? What ARE you saying, EXACTLY? Hint: try untwisting and parsing out the multiple threads of meaning contained in the phrase "If you ever met ME, in the flesh, in the real world, I guarantee that you would absolutely NOT ATTEMPT the kind of mindfuck games that you routinely play behind the protection of your little cyber-mask." Then, decide exactly WHICH of those threads corresponds to what you are actually trying to say. Then. . . SAY it! Clearly, honestly, succinctly, unequivocally, unambiguously.

Now, on to your big 47 dollar question: "What don't father's rights groups do...etc.?" My answer is, that I have absolutely no idea why they don't do what you want them to do.

That's brilliant. Thanks for that clarification.

Why should they? Why don't you ask them yourself?

They can't read text on this blog and answer the question? If the likes of you found your way here, surely you can lead them here, yes? Oh, but you're too busy--what with the "counter-feminism" work and all. (Cough.)

Let's try this: Why don't YOU organise to stop MEN from raping WOMEN? Let's start with you.

But to venture a guess, I would say 1.)it never occurred to them because their political focus is different

Yes, "their political focus is different" as in "utterly self-centered, self-involved, whiny, oh-woe-is-the-plight-of-white-het-men wrapped up in protecting unearned privileges and unjust entitlements". Got it. "Different", yes. They, and you, btw, focus on being utterly callous and astoundingly oblivious to what MEN do that is atrociously harmful, degrading, violating, and oppressive to WOMEN. And you all pretend that what is done to class-privileged white het men is just as bad or worse. And the Jews oppressed the Nazis during HaShoah, right? And African Americans oppress whites in the U.S., right? And Indigenous people in North America are engaging in genocide against white people like you, right? And gay men and lesbian women control the civil rights of heterosexuals like you, right? Wrong.

and 2.) because they don't share your personal obsession with those issues in particular.

Anti-rape work isn't exactly my personal obsession. But you seeing it that way reveals a lot about your inability to see political work as anything other than "psychological". This would mean that your antifeminist work is also "a personal obsession" yes? 


Rape--men's rape of women and girls--is a serious matter, like white men's genocide against Indigenous people on North America. Those that are concerned about rape and genocide are people with a heart and soul. Are you in that population? I sure hope so. So far, though, you give no evidence of this being true. You present yourself as a politically unaware fool. Is that your intention?

After all, the world is a big place, full of problems large and small, and . . . we can't all do everything!

And is white het men playing sports, and working to make more millions in bonuses, working to get women drunk so as to be better able to fuck them, working on finding that right pic of a raped woman to reach orgasm to, working to get better at that warfare or crime drama video game, working to get out of paying alimony and child support, working to shoot animals in the woods for sport, working to rip off Indigenous culture, working to be homophobic, racist bigots more important than working to ending rape, Fidelbogen? Why don't you tell me what's more important to work on. Why don't you tell me what you do, in your work life, that is way more important than working to end rape.

Can we? ;)

No, you and your Blanched Homosocial Brethren can't do everything. You can't really do much of anything, other than being oppressive assholes, by the looks of what you do. But it would be good, socially, morally, and politically, if you could do ONE thing: end rape. 

White het men fuck up so much that you guys attempt to do (and pretend to be oh-so-very good at, with "good" here meaning "moral and effective"): like run transnational corporations with all kinds of tax loopholes so the poor and working people have to pay for your crimes against humanity; run corrupt capitalist financial institutions; run greedy, inhumane, callous insurance companies; rule oppressive countries, states, and cities. You--the white het men who do this--are "good" at all that, but NOT in any moral way. 

So how's about you gather up all your white het male buddies, and work to end rape? Given that you are the most sexist-racist-homophobic and overall destructive demographic, why don't you stop rape? Against women, transgendered people, girls, and boys of many colors and ethnicities. Why don't you, Fidelbogen? What is it that is so much more important that you've got to do with your time?

7 comments:

kurukurushoujo said...

Next: The statement that "men can stop rape" is an incoherent semantic muddle

*lmao*

This very clear statement consisting of 4 words is "an incoherent semantic muddle"? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

Julian Real said...

Dear kurukurushoujo,

Next: The statement that "men can stop rape" is an incoherent semantic muddle

*lmao*

This very clear statement consisting of 4 words is "an incoherent semantic muddle"? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?


THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
What the fuck is wrong with these guys? These white het doods proclaim themselves to be the official guardians of English-language logic systems, and of rationality, and of "intelligence" yet they say the most ridiculous things known to the English language. [*throws hands up in the air and rolls eyes*]

Thank you so much for calling that out so genuinely and wonderfully.

If I could give you a prize for best comment reply to a post, I would.

kurukurushoujo said...

Thank you, Julian. :)

That portion of his argument there was just too stupid to be believed. And you're right: people like him think they can define anything to their advantage- it's maddening. They also never seem to get that patriarchy is an institutionalized social structure, not to mention the other nice things, especially equating oppression with power (Because being sexxxy gives you soooo much power. You can actually "force" men to spend money on you. *rollseyes*).

Julian Real said...

So true, kurukurushoujo!

Yes, the not-so-poor dears who are "forced" to spend their hard-earned dollars on women-allegedly-existing-for-sexxx-with-men, with the option to rape those women (and girls) with impunity. Life is tough for those white, class privileged, heterosexxxually active procuring pricks and rapists, I tell ya.

Why, they ought to organise as an "oppressed group": oh, wait, they do!

*rollseyes* too

Jessica "Wolverine" Metaneira said...

Real, you are so very damn awesome. Much respect. :)

Eoghan said...

But Julian.

The research on rape that includes both male and female perpetration and victimization shows that rape isn't a gendered problem, its doesn't "belong to men".

Julian Real said...

Hi Eoghan,

I welcome you to tell me what those studies are, that show that rape is not gendered. If men rape men in prison, they call the raped, not the rapist, their "bitch" and other terms that show the raped person is made more feminine/womanly for having been raped. Even if that's the only rape that occurred, that would show pretty clearly that the stigma of being female in a male supremacist society is glued to the act of rape.

With one in three Indigenous women being raped--mostly by white men the women do not know or welcome near them, I'm curious how you could even think what you wrote. And with every person I know, if the females are perpetrators, it is against children, not grown men. Grown men perpetrate against women and children.

Do you not see the structural pattern (and reality) there: sexual violence follows down the hierarchies maintained and controlled socially by white het men: over and against white women, women of color, against children, and when it occurs among men in populations where there are no women to rape, the raped are effectively considered as women who are degraded and regarded as relatively worthless.

Do you live in a society in which women rule men, economically, socially, sexually, and in all major religions? If you do, where is that? Do you live in a Black supremacist society, where whites are ruled by Black people? Where is that, if you do.

I hope you see the patterns, or, if not, just ask every man and every woman you know if they've been raped--forcibly penetrated against their will for the sexual pleasure and sense of domination sought by the perpetrator/aggressor, and note the results.

Of all the non-feminists and anti-feminists I know of, none deny that rape is something men systematically and atrociously do to women; the only argument is whether it is natural and inevitable (and only radical feminists argue that it is neither, and must end and not be excused by men).