Here are the links to the whole conversation:
CAUTION: What follows is a conversation between two men about their abusive behaviors toward girls, women, and others. Any survivor of child sexual abuse, rape, or other form of sexual violation and objectification may be quite triggered by portions of this exchange. All violative behaviors are named as such by at least one of the two people, critically, with remorse and/or regret. Both people do not currently use pornography.
Response/email #2 from USguy:
I am very glad to connect with you.
Regarding this portion of your email:
"There is a lot to say to you about my situation and where I'm up to etc. if you want to get involved and help. I know you're a random stranger, possibly from another country, so you'll have to set a boundary on how deeply you want to attend to me in particular. I'm ready to write you about 500 chaotic words on where I'm at, and have a good D&M if you're up for it."
What country do you live in? I'm in the U.S.
I'd prefer to see this connection as "mutually beneficial" than "me helping you." I'm not sure to what degree I can be of help, for one thing, and think it might be good for both of us, in terms of possibly developing a model that is radically feminist, not intensely white male supremacist and Protestant to boot.
I am not easily shocked. Tell me whatever you want. I can be upset by things, of course, as I'm sure you can, so I'll just let you know when something is upsetting to me, and why.
How does that sound as a way to proceed? The only other thing I'd ask, if we're going to correspond, is that weeks not go by between correspondence. I'll explain that request: I've been in many, many situations with men in which I am engaged in a process that attempts to hold them accountable to various things that we men do that harms women. And my experience is this: virtually all men find every reason in the world to deal with anything and everything else first. Everything is a higher priority than dealing with our own misogyny and sexist behavior. And I'm so "done" with men who don't commit to a process. This process could include, however, you letting me know "I'm feeling really overwhelmed right now." I don't wish for you to be invisible in the process, or to develop a process that simply isn't working for you. Does that make sense?
So where are you at, and tell me a bit about your history with pornography. Especially this: how old were you when you first encountered it? And what were the circumstances? Take me through your teen years, in terms of answering that. I find that the early parts of men's stories often hold lots of information that is important. And I'm also not one to take a psychoanalytic approach to explaining why men use pornography. I believe we use it primarily for three reasons:
1. We can. (It's mass produced and made available to us.)
2. We desire to. (And we are, or believe we are, entitled to objectify women in any number of ways, at our own whim.)
3. There are virtually no systems of accountability set up to keep our behavior from harming women. (Which is also to say, there are usually no consequences so meaningful as to warrant us shifting our behavior dramatically.)
I look forward to hearing back from you soon.
Response/email #2 from Aussieguy:
Thanks for your reply. I feel very comfortable with all of it and I will respond to the specifics and questions a bit at a time.
About commitments, I am happy to commit to ongoing and frequent communication. I don't check this email every day but I can confidently say that I will be able to email about twice a week. What we commit to other than frequency of communication can be an ongoing discussion.
I would like it to be mutually beneficial too. I'm interested in what you are trying to gain, so that I can help our contact to give us both what we're looking for.
I'm in Australia.
So, here's an intro to my story. I'm sure there'll be more to fill in later.
When I was about 9, I was swimming at the creek just near our house. My brother and sister went home and I stayed a little bit longer. A couple of teenage boys and a teenage girl came down to swim. The boys started swimming around the girl and trying to take her clothes off her. They told me to help. I swam over and was very excited. I started telling them all the things they needed to undo to take the girl's top off and things. After harrassing the girl for a while, they gave up without taking her clothes off. We all got out of the creek and the boys gave me all the change out of their wallets and told me not to tell anyone.
I used to think that this incident was the beginning of my objectification of women. It was probably a significant event but I now think more along the lines of what you said: "I believe we use it primarily for three reasons:
1. We can. (It's mass produced and made available to us.)
2. We desire to." ... etc
At primary school, I started perving up girls' dresses. I also discovered wanking when I was 10 or 11 and still at primary school. I used to position myself on the bus so that I could look up a girl's dress across the aisle if she sat the right way.
At high school, I continued perving on girls, looking up their skirts as they went up stairs, and looking down their tops. I thought it was a kind of seedy thing to do but I did it anyway. A friend of mine at school said "There's somethign wrong with you if you don't look down girls' tops." I thought that wanking was wrong as well and that I would have to stop when I started ejaculating or people would find out.
We lived in the bush from when I was 10 until I went to uni. In the summer, I used to watch people who came down to the river form the other side. I saw 3 women sunbathing in small bikinis and I hid and watched them and masturbated. After that, I used to come down to the river often and I sometimes saw people swimming naked. I would masturbate then too. Whenever I heard voices down at the river, I wanted to come and see who it was.
When I was about 14 or 15, I found a porn mag at a family friend's house. I can't remember what magazine it was but it wasn't very hardcore. My brother and I looked at it. We wondered why your penis gets hard when you look at the pictures. I remember saying "Maybe you're getting ready to have it off."
When I was about 16, I was camping with friends. Someone brought a few copies of Mayfair magazine and we all had a look at that. I was really drawn to it and kept going back to have another look.
After that, I started buying some of the magazines that you don't have to be 18 to buy. They're pretty sexist but the pictures are not that explicit, although they are fully nude. I also started stealing the ones in packets from the newsagents.
When I moved to Sydney for uni, I discovered the restricted premises where you can buy hardcore porn. I started buying those magazines then, and we also watched some porn movies that someone got from somewhere. They were really hardcore, with scenes of two penises fucking the same vagina and stuff. I remember thinking at the time that the sex is really not loving or nice at all.
After I left uni, I travelled around for a while and continued buying porn magazines. I also kept perving on women. When I have stayed in youth hostel dorms, I have lain awake with my eyes nearly closed and watched while a woman checked to see that I was 'asleep' and then quickly got changed.
My perving has gone to shameful lengths. I was on a little camp once and there was a communal shower block. The showers had a curtain and then another curtain for a door. I pulled the outer curtain open a little way when a woman was showering so that when she opened the other curtain, I would be able to see her. When she did that, she saw me and was very alarmed and pulled her curtain closed again and reached out for her towel. I was very ashamed.
A few times, I have used mirrors to look in on women in the shower.
In the last few years, I have discovered porn on the internet. I first found it at uni but it was so slow it wasn't practical then. In the last 5 years, though, it has been my main way of looking at porn. I look at sites where people post photos they have taken of unsuspecting women getting changed and things like that. I also found some sites where there are totally explicit sex clips posted, many of them from standard porn sites and also some home made ones and you can just go on and see them without any signing in or anything.
I'm back at uni again now and I have to go to a class so I will finish this story later. I'll just say for now that I think it's time I stopped this shit. I'm on a new run of being strong with it a the moment and seeing a counsellor and it's going well.
END OF POST.