Wednesday, June 15, 2011

On "radical" identities and the consciousness of some white bloggers

image is from here

NOTE: This is not directed at every white woman I know. It is directed at many white women I do not know.

I've been encountering some white privilege, power, and entitlements in my regular encounters with folks. This is nothing new. Recently the whitness is showing up in a variety of ways but it there is one form that I will address right now.

Just so you know--if you're new to this blog, I stand strongly in political and spiritual solidarity with women of color who are, as far as I can see, always fighting at least two institutionalised ideologies: male supremacy and white supremacy, if not also other forms of oppression and domination such as capitalism, heterosexism, anti-Semitism, anti-Islamic violence, anti-Indigenous genocide. I will call out any expression of white supremacy I encounter.

There are some white women online who are calling themselves "radical" who deny that women can oppress women. This is as messed up a viewpoint as men claiming they cannot oppress other men due to race, class, and other conditions. Some men do argue this, of course. Some white het men believe it because they deny there are any systems of oppression, any social-political hierarchies, working at all. Some WHM (white het men) claim they wish to be spoken about as if they are only individuals, not as part of an institutionally protected, privileged group. With that as their request, they then proceed to understand women only as a group--and are numbingly stupid about the diversity of perspective and analysis among feminists.

Especially, patriarchy- and white supremacy-protecting WHM argue that feminists are all man-haters, never bothering to offer up a substantive argument other than throwing around quotes. (They also stay astoundingly silent about all the published men who state quite clearly that men are rapists by nature--a position not belonging to radical feminism.) Their two-dozen favorite quotes (see *here* for more about this) by all-white feminists are allegedly all the proof they need that "those damned feminists hate men so much!" Why they seem so determined to ignore the work of radical feminists of color is beyond me--unless it is because they assume women of color aren't worth paying attention to. Anyone with a computer and a mouse can easily gather up about a thousand times as many quotes online from white het men who demonstrate disgusting levels of misogyny, and racism, homophobia, and general callousness to cruelty committed or controlled predominantly by WHM.

These WHM activists go on and on about Black people as one group, lesbians as one group, Mexican people as one group, and Asian people as one group, Indigenous people as one group--if they care to notice there are Indigenous people at all. This often means that these political WHM cannot comprehend the existence and diversity among lesbian women of color and how their experiences might vary from white lesbian women's. Other men believe, for example, that if men are poor or not white they are not capable of oppressing women. I've heard and seen plenty of arguments by het men of color that they are only oppressed, and are not oppressors to women in their own communities and regions. Bullshit.

The willful ignorance isn't limited to het men, however.

Here's a quick anecdote about a white, class-privileged gay man I once knew through a mutual friend. My friend and this white gay man worked together in retail and I ran into him when going to this store.

The man I didn't know especially well, but who welcoming of getting to know me better, thought he's impress me with his humor. He told me a joke that was racist. I won't repeat it. I was deeply upset by it and he was quite surprised I would be so alarmed. This is often my experience with whites--we assume we're all good with the racism. I'm not. So I didn't laugh and indicated that I didn't find his "joke" funny. When he realised this he went on to explain to me why it was okay for him to tell it. He said Whoopi Goldberg told the joke, and he was gay so he can't be racist. (Because, you know, he's oppressed by sexual orientation so apparently that means he can't oppress anyone else.)

I asked my friend how it could be that this white guy thought I'd welcome hearing that joke. He told me the following: [racist white guy in denial] told me a joke--kind of like the one he told you but not with the racist parts; I told him you would probably like it. So that's how come [racist white guy] thought it would be okay. I told my friend the actual joke shared and he too was shocked. Neither of us are friends with [racist white guy in denial].

Every feminist friend I know would call him out on a bogus argument that gay men can't oppress women because the men are gay.

Enduring one form of marginalisation or subjugation doesn't mean one is positioned socially and structurally to not oppress anyone or any group to which one doesn't belong. Every woman I know personally understands that men who are gay can be oppressive to women--particularly lesbian, in some communities, if we share social spaces. Although the Sheila Jeffreys' book, Unpacking Queer Politics, is being trashed without thoughtful engagement or analysis by many people occupying many different social spheres, it does engage the reader in an important conversation about how gay men's behavior and values oppresses lesbian women. At the time of this writing, I can count on zero hands the number of white gay men who have responded responsibly to her arguments.

Every woman I know also understands that men of color can be oppressive to women across race and sexuality. How does it happen then, that white and het women cannot be oppressive to any other women (or, for that matter, to men of color, and to gay men if the women are het)? With what understanding of social harm and hierarchy, and through what privileged and protected lens does one get to believe that? How convenient for not taking full political responsibility for one's whiteness or heterosexuality, eh? And, what's more, these women have all had plenty of opportunity to learn about their white supremacy and heterosexism as they've been called out on each of these rearing its oppressive head in many social spaces.

To believe that because one is a [white het] woman--with just about every form of privilege and entitlement on Earth--one cannot be an oppressor either individually or institutionally, totally invisibilises how a very central force in many societies works: that force is white supremacy. It also renders white women invisible as whites and women of color invisible as people who are both women and of color, all due to white women's political slight of hand which they summarise as "women can't oppress women". Apparently, for race- and region-privileged women do not have any other structural locations on Earth other than as women: unraced.

When I learned recently that a few radical-identified white het women believed this, I realised I'd heard it before, many times, and that it might help explain why it is that so many white "radical" women do not deal with their racism, their white privilege, and the meaning and forms of their white power and entitlements. I'll press pause on the unacknowledged or blatantly denied heterosexism issue for now. The racism I've witnessed isn't only demonstrated and denied by het white women.

I reflected back on the drag shows co-organised by white lesbians and white gay men. The lesbians called themselves "radical" because they sincerely thought they were. When I challenged them on co-creating spaces that were overtly hostile and insulting to lesbian (and other) women of color, to poor women of color, to men of color also, they pretended my concern was not as important as their need to be entertained by each other. They treated the matter as if it were abstract. To them, it was abstract because they've never taken the time to immerse themselves intimately in the communities and lives of people without race privilege. They don't ever have to live the lives of lesbian women of color and they can believe that white lesbian experience is all they need to consider or show concern about when organising to defend lesbian experience.

I will continue to call out white supremacist queer people who also misuse the term "radical"--according to the radical women of color I know, not primarily according to me. Too often patriarchy protected practices like gender bending are promoted as radical or revolutionary. There are several problems with that viewpoint. One is that their political practice is based on understanding the social problem as "gender" or "the gender binary" and not male supremacy--and white supremacy and heterosexism and capitalism, among other forms of organised harm and horror.

It isn't that difficult to translate dynamics that are male supremacist to those that are white supremacist. One central reason it isn't difficult is because both systems of harm and dehumanisation inform each other, shape each other, and feed off of one another, in white male supremacist societies.

Here are a few clues one, if a blogger, might be acting out of white privilege, power, and entitlements.

--your blog doesn't identify your race as white if you're white
--your blog or identity doesn't include your stated understanding of how and where you step on the backs of others to be where you are. I mean collectively: how your people got to be where they are
--you believe you are radical because you comprehend how white women are oppressed by white men, but don't understand any other form of oppression and apparently don't make it your business to do so
--you feel very entitled to "own" and "define" the term "radical" because you are white; it doesn't occur to you that you're not radical if you promote your own white supremacy by ignoring your white privileges and power
--you put down white trans people because the white trans people you know have liberal political agendas, meaning pro-status quo; you don't consider how being white supremacist is deeply pro-status quo and dangerously conservative

I have similarly called out sexist and misogynist men of color who believe themselves to be radical; often enough, men of color who see themselves as radicals will limit their political consciousness to understanding how white supremacy degradingly effects men of color.

Now, most of the white power I encounter belongs to and is exercised by men; I don't wish to pretend that white women hold more white power than do white men. Intersectional analyses of power means that one benefits in complex ways when one holds more than one position atop a hierarchy. Being white and male, for example--as I am--means something different than being white plus male. It's not only an additive thing to me--this life that is lived in positions of power relative to other groups of people. It's also exponential. This is why I view white men's white power as greater than white women's. Also because if white women exercise any form of power in ways that white men disapprove of, it will be the white men who get their way--institutionally if not always interpersonally. But often enough, white men will kill white women if the men don't approve of how the white women are behaving.

One key way I see white women ignore and deny their own white power is to pretend that violence only happens interpersonally. Typically, white blogs that are pro-feminist deal with issues of rape, harassment, the practices of heterosexuality, and other interpersonal and intimate harm, but not, for example with issues of poverty, racism, HIV, and starvation that isn't only isn't individually experienced but is also politically imposed as a form of genocide.

This is because poverty, racism, and most other forms of atrocity and terrorism are profoundly interlocking institutionalised realities (as is rape; as is sexism). Poverty, in particular, isn't always so easily identified as only something individuals do to other individuals. We can note that rich people don't have to walk down the street harassing poor people individually; they do, often enough, however, work behind the scenes to pass city legislation to ban poor people from congregating or home-making in various parts of a city. The deals are made out of view of the poor people who will be most negatively effected.

I'm not comfortable defining myself as "radical" unless I am open to looking at and working to challenge all areas of my privilege, in collaboration with women who are negatively effected by that privilege; this necessarily means engaging with women of color across sexuality and with lesbian women across race and ethnicity. "Radical" is not primarily a mindset or a viewpoint, to me. What it is, is a commitment to action demonstrated actively. Action to call oneself out, to hold oneself accountable, and--importantly--to be personally and socially available to be accountable--to not hide out in only-white or only-male or only-het spaces for example.

These same white het women promoting ideas that they cannot oppress the women they do, in fact, oppress were also working to silence Lesbian women. It appears they don't see their heterosexuality as a position of power over and against women marginalised by sexual-political orientation--which really means by the het supremacy that women also participate in.

The anti-trans perspectives among some white non-trans women "radical" bloggers is fierce and self-righteous. If only their critiques of whiteness were as rigorous.

Suffice it to say if we work with this as a definition of what radical feminists oppose--"if it hurts women, feminists are against it"--we are left to know, beyond any glare of doubt, that racism is anti-woman if the women are women of color. This means that racism is also a form of misogyny. To any white woman who is against misogyny: are you against the misogyny you promote and protect, that negatively impacts the lives of women of color, by you ignoring your own white privilege and power?

White women, usually, like pro-status quo white men, do not care enough to consider how their lives are not at all like women without race privilege. I've witnessed how women of color are expected to pass white women's litmus tests of whether or not they are radical--such as on pornography or prostitution. They don't consider that their own use of "radical" ought to be up for question if they can't identify what it is women of color face the world over that white women do not.

I call this out as a white male, knowing that if a white woman called out the same stuff she'd be verbally harassed and otherwise threatened for doing so by other white women seeking to maintain the very real power of the White Sisterhood. Both because of my male privileges and power, and because I do not seek solidarity with racist white women, I don't feel as vulnerable to such ostracism as some of my anti-racist white sisters do. So I'm speaking out here because if and when I don't, the task falls, as usual, to women of color. If the white women promoting this racist nonsense don't wish to hear it from a white male because being responsive to me is engaging in sexist practice to them, perhaps they'll listen to white radical lesbian feminist, Marilyn Frye, *here*.

I hope they'll consider the very radical act of believing what radical women of color say about white women's privileges and power to be oppressors. They could start with Audre Lorde, bell hooks, and Andrea Smith.

(For more on radicalism and blogging, see *this post*.)

Friday, June 10, 2011

To Hugo Schwyzer, The Good Men Project, and any man who believes using and promoting the term "Sl*twalk" is pro-feminist activism

photo portrait of Hugo Schwyzer is from here
I want my daughter to grow up in a world in which all men are safe, responsible, reliable. We don’t have that world yet, of course. -- Hugo Schwyzer

Hugo could improve his daughter's chances of seeing that world if he was accountable to women who understand what is not pro-feminist about promoting events which use the word "sl*t" for women.


Hugo Schwyzer is not liked by MRAs. I'm not thrilled with his behavior, but not for the same reasons as MRAs. This doesn't mean "my enemy's enemy is my friend". For one thing, Hugo isn't my enemy. He's a very, very privileged white pro-feminist man with whom I disagree about many issues related to responsible pro-feminist behavior and activism. For another, he and I have a lot more in common than either of us do with MRAs.I believe Hugo is acting from places of great privilege and entitlement in supporting men using terms and being part of protests and actions called "Sl*twalk". I've already posted on this issue once, and that is linked to below. Also below is a modified version of my comment posted for Hugo to read. He has not responded to me.

My issues with him supporting things called "Sl*twalk" with a "u" replacing the asterisk, in case there's any doubt what word that is, are multiple.

1. The most marginalised and trafficked women typically do not have the option to feel or be empowered by using the word "sl*t" because men are daily using the term traumatically against them--in many languages.

2. Many people are called this term, with derision, with contempt, and with other forms of violence accompanying the verbal assault. Among those people are Indigenous women, Black women, Brown women, Asian women, gay men, trans people, and children across sexuality, gender, race, ethnicity, and region. We might note that Hugo is not marginalised or oppressed in any of those ways. I contend it is partly because of that political position, and because of his accompanying entitlements to behave as he wishes without accountability to those of us he structurally oppresses, that he calls on men--probably mostly other het white men like himself--to also embrace the appropriation of misogynist-racist-classist language in the guise of being good profeminist men.

3. As a gay male who is stereotyped as being promiscuous, aka "a sl*t", I object to the use of the term to promote ending violence against people who are either women or who are denigrated, harassed, and beat up for being viewed as too feminine. Women are targeted by misogynists who actually believe some women are "sl*ts" and "h*s" and "wh*res", and many other terms in many other languages, far too often; far less often gay and bi males are abused similarly but in a very different political context--males always have some male privileges and entitlements, whereas women do not.

I also don't believe in promoting men as "good" as he does at The Good Men Project as long as these "good men" are not fully accountable to the people they structurally oppress. Unless they are accountable, they're not significantly different than any other men, in my view. Because without accountability, they are socially capable of doin whatever they want with the power, entitlements, and privileges they have.

What follows is from The Good Men Project. You may link back by clicking on the title below. Also included are some of the comments directed at Hugo, along with my own which is last on the list.


Why Men Should Join SlutWalk

May 24, 2011 By Hugo Schwyzer 86 Comments

Los Angeles SlutWalk steering committee member and GMPM columnist Hugo Schwyzer argues that SlutWalk is for men, too.


The sluts are in the streets. From L.A. to London, Minneapolis to Melbourne, this has become “SlutWalk spring.” (Down under, I suppose it’s “SlutWalk Fall.”) SlutWalk began in Toronto, Canada, in response to a police officer’s remark that if women wanted to avoid being raped, they shouldn’t dress like sluts. That exercise in victim-blaming led Heather Jarvis, Sonya Barnett, and a handful of their friends to put together a small march and rally through the streets of Canada’s largest city on April 3.
Perhaps it was the controversy around the name, or perhaps it was the cause itself, but in the less than eight weeks since that first SlutWalk, the movement has become a global phenomenon with widespread press attention. Satellite SlutWalks have taken place or are in the planning stages on six continents. The Los Angeles SlutWalk happens on June 4; I’m proud to be on the steering committee for what we expect will be a major event.
There are many reasons why men should be involved with SlutWalk. The important ones have nothing to do with what the women marching might—or might not—be wearing. (There is no dress code for SlutWalk, and past marches have seen folks rally in everything from bathrobes to bikinis to Brooks Brothers suits.)
When that cop in Toronto made that unfortunate remark about women “dressing like sluts” being more likely to be raped, he was telling a partial truth. He wasn’t right about who gets sexually assaulted—there is no study that shows that women in miniskirts or tube tops are statistically at greater risk of rape than their more modestly-clad sisters. Rather, he was telling a truth about how our culture sees men. And that truth is based on one very great lie.
I’ve been doing work around gender and sexual violence for nearly 25 years. I developed my college’s first interdisciplinary course on “Men and Masculinity” a decade ago. And in all my years of teaching and activism, I’ve come to believe that there’s one lie that’s bigger than any other we tell about men: we cannot reconcile our arousal and our compassion. In other words, the lie says we can’t truly respect what we also desire.
More than a few men, if they’re honest with themselves, know that this isn’t true for them. As boyfriends and husbands, many straight guys discover that they can both lust after and be genuinely in love with the same woman at the same time. We learn (most of us) that the older boys in the locker room were wrong: a hard dick can have a conscience. But we often suspect we’re the only ones who can reconcile our libidos with our ethics.
And so out of fear what other men might do (or, perhaps, what we fear we might dream of doing ourselves) we urge our little sisters and our daughters to “cover up”, to avoid dressing “slutty” in order to ensure respect for men. Deep down, we know that the women we love are as vulnerable to rape in a mu-mu as in a miniskirt. Men rape as much out of rage as frustrated desire—and there is no outfit short of steel armor a woman can wear that will protect her from an obsessed stalker or a drunken frat boy filled with a sense of entitlement.
♦◊♦
I’m involved in organizing SlutWalk LA for many reasons. But I appreciate one assumption that the Toronto founders made in particular. Though what constitutes “slutty” clothing is obviously open to debate, SlutWalkers believe in men’s capacity to do two things at once: be aroused by what we see while honoring the humanity of the woman whose body attracts our eye. The most pernicious of all lies about men is that because of our makeup, lust and empathy can’t coexist within us. If you want kind and compassionate men who will respect women’s boundaries, the myth suggests, those women will have to conceal the parts of themselves that will turn men bestial and irresponsible.
There’s another lie SlutWalk refutes. It’s the one that says that men only need to “respect women who respect themselves.”
Too many of us still believe that “self-respect” for a woman means chastity and modesty. If she’s wearing revealing clothing, enjoys attention, and maybe even likes sex outside of a committed monogamous relationship, we call her a “slut”—and accuse her of not respecting herself. Perhaps she does respect herself, perhaps she doesn’t. (Promiscuity is not perfectly correlated with low self-esteem, despite what a lot of pop psychologists tell you.) But in the end, it doesn’t matter. Women aren’t commodities whose value is based on their own fluctuating sense of self-worth.
Common decency means respecting people because they’re people, not because of how we imagine they feel about themselves. So if a woman dresses in a way that we think invites sexual attention, or if she chooses multiple sexual partners, we’re not required to approve of her lifestyle or her fashion choices. But we are required to respect her right to move through public and private space unchallenged and unmolested. That’s not too much to ask for any man.
♦◊♦
 
When I was first publicly identified as an organizer of SlutWalk LA, someone sent me a tweet asking how I’d feel if my daughter turned out to be “a slut.” It’s not as offensive a question as it sounds. It was a reminder to me as a dad that I shouldn’t advocate for others what I wouldn’t want for my own child.
What I replied (in more than one 140 character tweet) was that my daughter was foremost in my mind when I committed to the SlutWalk campaign. I want a world where she is free to grow into a woman’s body without fear of being raped. I want her to have the freedom to express her sexuality safely and joyfully in whatever way she chooses, whenever she’s ready (and not a moment before). And I want her to grow up without shame about her own wanting and about her wanting to be wanted.
I want my daughter to grow up in a world in which all men are safe, responsible, reliable. We don’t have that world yet, of course. But the reason has nothing to do with biology: it has to do with our crushingly low expectations of men’s capacity to reconcile lust and humanity. In order for our daughters and little sisters and nieces to be safer, we must demand better of ourselves as men. And one way to start is to challenge the very roots of our thinking about sex, desire, and respect. That challenge is part of what SlutWalk is all about.
—Photo by troismarteaux/Flickr




Comments

  1. Chiagoush says:
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    I think we need to change the way men see women period. If I wear a skin tight dress, it is not a non-verbal way of saying ,”have sex with me please!” And men need to understand that a woman dressing slutty is not a valid reason to sexually assault or rape her! How would men like it if every time they wear biker shorts outside, a women would rape them at gunpoint? It’s sickening! I cannot even wear a sun dress with out men trying to harass and assault me! And on another point, I think there is something wrong with a person who feels the need to have SO many sexual partners. Men have this problem more than women and I think there is something going on in men’s minds where they are lacking something!
      •   wondering says:
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        There is a whole lot of difference between dressing sexily and being open to approaches and dressing sexily and being raped. The difference is consent. Your friends are complaining not because they are not being raped but because they are not being approached in a friendly, interested, and nonthreatening manner.
        You are right that communication would solve that problem. If horny women felt more comfortable approaching men that they are interested in, they’d probably get laid more often. Of course, that is behaving in a way that women have been taught not to since birth, so it is really hard to get over – especially since there are social consequences for behaving that way. Because women aren’t supposed to ask – aren’t supposed to have to ask – and if you do, there must be something wrong with you. Fun fact, I’ve had men leave the club simply because I asked them to dance. Apparently “would you like to dance” is code for “I want to marry you, have 6 babies, divorce you messily, and take every penny you have in child support”. Or so I surmise.
  2. AlekNovy says:
    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Slut-shaming will end the exact same day that creep-shaming ends. Both are ways society uses to control the sexuality of members it deems “unworthy” of access to sex or social status.
    So, asking men to unilaterally fight for women’s liberation is literally arrogant. If women do not care about dismantling the creep label, men do not have a contractual obligation to help women shed the slut label.
    I would support a creep/slut-walk.
    Guys are told continually “If you were falsely accused of rape, sent to jail and ass-r**ed for 20 years – well its your fault, coz you were creepy looking”. If women attack you and harass and bully you, well dude, its your fault, you were creepy etc… etc…
  3. jason says:
    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    what is a female issue doing in a mens site? we have had affermative action for 40 years which is sex discrimination anti male at its best , I wanted to march to support womans movement to stop violence against women but was told no only females allowed as “we ” males assult women.
    I am sick of my taxes going to every womans program ever devised , women in business , women represented in government , womans programs . all childrens government support monies to the ‘mother” as though Fathers have no say ? the divorce courts discriminating against males , taking their children , that term ” a male getting in touch with his feminine side ? meaning compassion, caring , love as though only females have that?? .and your “masculine side means agression!!! utter crap!
    the glass ceiling ? wtf?? only for high paid “clean” exec jobs ? what about” equality” on the dirty hard jobs men do ??? yes i am all for equal rubbish collectors, brick layers , sewage workers . truckies !! farmers, mechanics, plumbers , no it wont happen !! to hard lol
  4. Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
    I appreciate the points re: “the lie that says we can’t truly respect what we also desire.” However, re: why men rape (“Men rape as much out of rage as frustrated desire”), the root cause of rape is the rapist’s violent insistence on having power and control.
  5. Julian Real says:
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    Hi Hugo,
    I hope that men also learn to stop calling women sl*t, b*tch, and all the other misogynist and racist terms so many men across sexual orientation think are so cool that they’ll now call men the same things–which, as far as I can tell, does nothing at all to stop men from using them against women. What’s your experience with hearing the terms men call women? Any change over the years that you’ve noticed.

    To add to the conversation on Sl*twalk, I posted this:
    http://radicalprofeminist.blogspot.com/2011/05/sltwalk-another-point-of-view.html
    I would hope that women with lots of privilege would be accountable to those women who are most negatively affected by those terms–and the violence backing them up. I support the least privileged women being the people others go to for advice and responsible use of such terms, particularly when they are being used “in feminism’s name”.

    All the women I know don’t like or approve of the liberal tactic of “appropriation” of misogynist terms.

Exposing the HeteroPatriarchal Agenda and Values of Father's Rights Activist, Jackie Anderson

image is from here
Is the logo above is unduly phallic or is it just me who sees erect penises where they don't belong?

A fellow blogger has written commentary appropriately interrupting the text of a dangerously heteropatriarchal dood. His name is Jackie Anderson, and he's a Communications Director for StudentsForLifeofAmerica. He'd be more dangerous if he made sense, but perhaps not. Perhaps we don't live in a time when making sense is all that important. The more I think about it, the more it appears that nonsense sells, and the more the nonsense taps into racist and heteropatriarchal memes,  themes, ideals, and myths, the more adored it will be by the pro-status quo masses.

The Hermes' Journeys blogger has put his critique and commentary in brackets and italics below. I'll put my own comments in the cross-post in bold, [brackets], and also in a pretty color. I was welcomed to do this by the host of Hermes' Journeys.

To link back to the original pro-feminist intervention, please click *here*.
To link to the original post containing this Fathers' Rights nonsense UNinterrupted, please click *here*.

Only the text in the pretty pinkish color is mine. To be honest, I really don't like pink, or blue. And, in a preliminary response to what follows, I don't like tea parties or toy trucks either. -- Julian

Thursday, June 9, 2011


Unofficial Month of Men!

My brain almost exploded when I opened up my email this morning. See, I subscribe to the mailing list for this ridiculously well-funded and well-organized Arlington, VA-based pro-life group called Students For Life, in order to keep tabs on their memes and tactics. You can pretty much guess what their emails are normally like. But today's was special. Today's was designed to make sociologists apoplectic.


The subject was "Should Men Have A Say?" And the email starts out with a message called "A Man's Choice?" from Jackie Anderson, the Communications Director. I will reproduce it here with my comments in brackets:

June is unofficially the month of men. [isn't every month?] [And isn't this the official millennium of men, much like all the others?] Father’s Day [in the US] falls on June 17th this year. [OK I'll give you that one] The release of X-Men: First Class last week helped to begin the month with a testosterone-infused rush to the box office. [um, what the shit does that have to do with anything? are you just trying to hook in the college-aged crowd here? the X-men, if anything, are a progressive organization. The movies are basically a parable for gay rights!] [Yes, Hermes! He might like to consider what it is he's REALLY promoting. And I hope he realises women have testosterone too. And men have estrogen.] Like similar holidays [which celebrate Christian white het men's "greatest" accomplishments in mass murder, slavery, and oppression--such as Presidents' Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Columbus Day, Veteran's Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas], we take time this month to celebrate those whom we love [--and with FR activists that'd be "ourselves, and our reflections in mirrors"], those who have loved us from the start [statistically and anecdotally, that's not likely to be daddy], and sometimes, those we may not see as often as we wish. [Statistically and anecdotally, that would be daddy.]

Men play an intrinsically different role in our lives than women do. [!!!!! AHHHHH BRAIN STARTING TO MELT] [Men do not play an intrinsically different role in the lives of children who are raised by two fathers, or whose single and partnered mothers do the work of two parents; traditionally, men's role is to disappear or dominate; to cheat on one's mother; to beat one's mother; and also to beat and incest the children; I'll inquire about this blatant omission of reality further later on] From an early age, we’re taught the idiosyncrasies that make men who they are [Often enough from heterosexist media. I wonder, Jackie, are you referencing the men who are abusive, or the men who are not?], and similarly, that make women equally as unique. [FFFUUUUUUU...] [We might note the phrasing "similarly ... equally as unique" is nothing if it isn't oxymoronic. First, it implies oppositional and hierarchical uniqueness, attributed not to individuals but to ALL women as distinguished from ALL men is a form of similarity; this would mean that socially speaking, all men are clones, including genetically if you think genes greatly inform personality and actions, as men like Jackie do; are we really supposed to believe that ALL men share the exact same ideosyncrasies--like car-adoring, warring, and snoring? Does this mean that each woman shares with every other woman those OTHER ideosyncrasies --being gentle, nurturing, irrational, athletically incompetent, and unaware of what a automobile's transmission is? Isn't this is racism, classism, and hetero/sexism full throttle? When men accuse women of making such grandly irrational statements just like Jackie's, the women are called misandrists; I conclude, therefore, using anti-feminist "logic" that Jackie is also a misandrist; because he has informed us that all men are alike, all men must be like him: misandrists. Right? Isn't that how "logic" works? Like math? Let's see if I get called a misandrist for noting what far too many men say. I don't say what ALL men say, because I do recognise that all men are not exactly alike; some of us are gay, not class privileged, Indigenous, Black, Brown, and Asian, intelligent, caring, warm, nurturing, athletically incompetent, unable to distinguish the motor of a Jeep from that of a Jaguar; men, collectively, are not the shockingly homogenous, homosocial bunch who organise as Fathers Rights activists] Baby boys get blue painted rooms and toy trucks after their first sonogram [well, not the fetuses who get prematurely punched out of the woman's belly when daddy finds out she's pregnant because he didn't wear a condom, and/or because he raped her; too often the babies and the new mom's get black-and- blue]; little girls will wear pink ruffles and decide to cut their Barbie’s hair themselves. [Really? You're really gonna go there, huh?] [Internationally, including among "First World" nations, even more fetuses won't come to term if they are determined that they'd be born into girlhood] Boys scrape their knees climbing trees and girls will discover early on that a slumber party with best friends beats the outdoors any day. [Well, many girls will discover that sleepovers in the tree houses they built is fun too--some girls, like some boys, do demonstrate an ability to enjoy more one thing; but globally most girls are very poor and don't have room in their materially impoverished homes for middle class activities like "sleep-overs"; most girls and their parents cannot afford Barbies and ruffles. Does this mean they aren't girls?!?! You won't hear anything about poor people from FR activists. They're all white, class-privileged, and "First World", and base their understandings of the world as if they're the only men on Earth] Men are categorized for their power and strength; women for their gentle, nurturing souls. [This is exactly the kind of ridiculous cultural myth I take great pains to debunk in my sociology classes, and here you are just flouting your ignorance. Are you also going to ruin students' science education by telling them how obvious it is that the Earth is flat?] [It's disgusting, isn't it Hermes? Unabashedly sexist people--women and men--categorise people this way; Jackie's and other het men's stereotypes of women do not fit well with other Fathers Rights activists' stereotypes of feminists, who are, after all, women who are all equally unique--according to the incredibly logical Jackie] The question, after the aforementioned and established [by denial and delusion?] cultural deliberation, is this: when did it become acceptable to remove men from the topic of abortion? [OK so now we're on this tired trope. Obviously, you're not talking about within the pro-life movement, which is so latently patriarchal that men's input gets a premium in abortion discussions. Just google men and abortion and you'll find a host of sites encouraging men to get involved, which is of course loose cover for unabashed pro-life propaganda. Make your woman go through with birth, claim your child as your own. It's a man's highest duty to procreate and raise a family. Rather, you're talking about your false straw man representation of the pro-choice movement, and feminism in general, as something that obliterates the male perspective and privileges freedom from external control over cultural theological ideas, and patriarchal structures that objectify women and define them as baby-factories. In fact, much of the pro-choice movement explicitly lobbies for men's inclusion in abortion-related discussions.] [I rather look forward to the day when white het class-privileged men shut up on the subject. Such a day has yet to arrive in human history since white manhood and male heterosexuality has existed. Jackie might want to open his mind to the fact that often,
men will demand that their pregnant spouse get an abortion and if they have the money they'll pay for it to eliminate the possibility of having parental responsibilities if she gave birth, lived, and raised the child; in case these FR doods didn't know it, that's mostly how abortion happens--it's men's choice and only men's choice; these FR guys seem to want to pretend that isn't the case, because then they'd have to be angry at and blame MEN, and they're too dick-whipped to do that.]
That's all that was in the email, but then there is a link to "read more" that, if you click on it, takes you to what is evidently a blog post from which the above text was excerpted. Here is the rest of the post:
The basic, secular pro-life [anti-woman, pro-man] argument is founded on bedrock truths concerning biology. [Or the dusty distortions of already thoroughly refuted "truths" purported by sociobiologist and evolutionary psychologists--who, surprise, are disproportionately class-privileged white het men.] Take DNA A, merge it with DNA B and you get DNA C. [Not true. You get various potential combinations, none of which amount to "C"; the combinations amount to various configurations of A plus B.] Simple enough [one might even say, "too simple"] (though, frustratingly, not for everyone [like those who are capable of complex thought]), and with that example you have life’s simplest equation: 50% + 50% = 100%. [See: 50 plus 50 equals 2x50, not "C"] Fifty percent of us [does he mean, for example, my legs, internal organs, and skin? None of those come from my parents--only genetic information that allows for some possible outcomes; how would being half one's mother and half one's father result in a child having a hair color that is unlike either parent? Uh-oh, we just got too complex for Jackie's simple understanding of genetics and human biology; and see what Hermes says next for more outing of Jackie's stupidity] come from our mothers, [so we are exactly our DNA? we are not our choices, our circumstances, our hopes and dreams, but rather we are information in a pattern of molecules?] who selflessly and fearlessly carry us to term and raise us to be solid contributors to society. [I'm fairly certain this isn't always the case. I can think of mothers who are not selfless or fearless, and I can think of grown-ups who never learned to be solid contributors to society.] [Women are hardly fearless when they are living with a domestic terrorist who pounds her in the hopes she and the fetus will die.]

And the other fifty percent of us, as dictated by simple [meaning: inaccurate and simplistic] biology, comes from our fathers, [who art in heaven--what about what we allegedly get from THAT Father? Wait. This dude isn't Christian??? Jackie may wish to explain to believers in the Virgin Birth that it never happened and that the reason the myth is even in the N.T. at all is because back then they didn't know there was any genetic material--or other significant contribution other than the shelter of the womb--passed on to the fetus; the math then was different: children were supposed to be 100% of the father and not at all of the mother] who contribute DNA [too often by force and without the woman or girl's enthusiastic consent], late night ice cream trips for their expecting counterparts [that's cutely trivializing, really], [I hate to bust Jackie's white, middle class, Western, delusional, culturally myopic bubble but most fathers--and mothers--don't live near ice cream shoppes and don't own cars] and the strength of their own character and spirit [read: that one character and one spirit body-type that is Woman's; and that one character and spirit that is all of Man's or a male God's, according to Jackie above] that they hope will one day be reflected in our own selves. [I'd like to hear Jackie's explanation for what it is rapists and adult male incest perpetrators hope for--and pass along to their offspring] A whole half of our mothers [the left half or the right half] is within ourselves; no more, no less. [No truth. No accuracy.] Consequently, the same goes for our fathers. [Hmmm. This would mean that each and every one of us is basically half-man and half-woman: 50/50, right? Hold on... Not the last time I checked!]
And while we’re on the topic of math, it’s 100% impossible to conceive [of this nonsense] without men. [I wouldn't be so hasty here. There's been a lot of research in parthenogenesis lately: scientists have been able to implant the cell nucleus of a mouse egg inside another mouse egg, and get them to join to form a fertilized embryo - no sperm required! And they're doing similar things with macaque monkeys, too. But I wouldn't expect you to, you know, follow developments in science or anything.] [And Lesbians do it all the time! Non-Lesbian women too: Nadya Suleman didn't have sexual intercourse with a man in order to conceive; this is partly why she is so despised by het men; although her male doctor was present for portions of the fertilisation process, but I don't think that's what Jackie is trying to say] In some way, shape or form, men are involved [read: usually in control of, as through force and coercion] in 100% of conceptions worldwide throughout the history of human life, [as opposed to the history of plant life] no matter the race, religion or creed. [Is this building up to us all singing the National Anthem or waving an Amerikkkan flag?] It’s simple biology. [Whenever you say something is simple that's probably a good clue that you don't understand it.] [LOL. Good one, Hermes!]

How, then, is abortion strictly a “women’s issue”? [um, because that's how you've set up your straw man?] [Abortion is far from a woman's issue only when it is allowed to be a woman's issue at all; men beating up pregnant women to the point that the women or girls either miscarry, die, or have to have the fetus removed prematurely directly involves the participation of men. The mothers who want custody of children (being possessed, abused, and manipulated by bitter, domineering ex-husbands) are not praised to the heavens by Fathers Rights activists, if the disgusting things the F.R. attorneys and the ex-hubbies allege about them of is any indication.] How is the expulsion of men from a conception they take 50% biological responsibility for [I didn't realize they were expelled from conception... then how does conception happen? magic baby fairies flit around in your uterus?] [How do women cope with the fact that many 'biological fathers' are self-expelling, leaving women to decide what to do about the pregnancy all alone when those 100% irresponsible "fathers" learn that the women or girls are pregnant? So much for men's involvement; 50% responsibility goes down to zero percent pretty damned often; as it does when men are court-ordered to pay child support; funny how wealthy men don't want to cough up money when they don't possess the children] any less illogical [than what Jackie argues in this statement?] than the argument surrounding the age-old “my body, my choice” agenda? [actually, that's quite a new line of thinking that developed along with feminism over the past couple of generations. What is age-old is what it developed as a response to: the thousands-of-generations-old idea that women are property of men and have no rights to make choices about their own bodies. This is the fundamental idea of "patriarchy," which your organization advocates a return to.] [Many men seem quite comfortable with the 'my body, my choice' position as long as the body is a man's and choice is only his too]

The sad reality today is that many fathers who want to have a strong presence [a brutal presence, even] in the lives of their child are denied this fundamental right [forgetting, of course, that most men voluntarily forfeit this 'fundamental right'; it appears many men view it as their fundamental right to hit the road, Jack--or Jackie; has Jackie never heard the song "Papa Was a Rolling Stone"?], as the life of their child is snuffed out of existence without them even having the legal right to say otherwise. [No mention here of men who snuff out the lives of pregnant women] Regardless of whether or not the father had a say in his partner’s abortion, [this presumes the partner is a woman, right?] men do suffer the same damaging psychological effects after abortion that often women experience. [How can 'men' feel something that women feel?? This goes against his opening thesis that all men are one way, with the same characteristics and all women are another way. Geesh, next thing you know Jackie will start going on and on about how men get sympathy pains during labor] [Some men really don't deserve this right, see?] [<---See the link there that Hermes embedded.]

Being a father means getting to hold your brand new son or daughter [or intersex child], the newest person on the planet at the time of their birth [well, newest along with all the others born at the same time; what's with the romanticisation of having the newest human on Earth, anyway? Is the child less valuable if its the third newest? Talk about introducing one's child to the insults of ageism!] and imaging their future. [Yes, like the future that unfolds for girl babies who are incested for ten years in their childhood, until they are old enough and physically large enough to tell him to fuck off] It means scraped knees and tea parties, exorbitant texting bills in middle school, and driving lessons and boyfriends in high school. [How much you want to bet he's not talking about boyfriends and tea parties for our sons?] Picking out softball teams, colleges, and wedding dresses. [It appears we've just re-entered the white, middle-class het-only Twilight Zone] Most amazingly, it means getting to play a prominent role in this tiny person, this little ball of blankets ultimately will become. [Your grammar is falling apart at the seams! But interestingly, you've now switched from a pseudo-biological argument for men having control over a woman's body, to an argument derived from rapidly fluctuating cultural meanings of fatherhood, which is shaky ground. which is it going to be?] [Yes, Hermes. I think he meant to say "play a prominent role in the life of this tiny person"--at least I hope like hell he did, because the way he wrote it it's fucking creepy.]

The beautiful gift of fatherhood [that so many men keep unwrapped, taking it with them to their graves] and the inalienable rights [apparently they are alienable - otherwise what the hell are you complaining about?] [LOL] and attributes attached to the men fortunate enough to hold the title [including the men who refuse to hold the baby?] should be celebrated daily. [Oh, please. More patriarchal flag-waving and anthem singing. Barf] Similarly, a heightened sense of fatherhood [is this a nod to all the fathers out there who live most of their adulthoods while stoned?] and the necessity to celebrate the role fathers play in the lives of their children should be emphasized within the pro-life [read: patriarchal] movement. [Even the fathers who emotionally, psychologically, and physically scar and traumatise their children?]
It is no secret that many women who choose to abort their child do so because they feel as though their partners are unsupportive of their decision to embark on motherhood; [and, not infrequently, because the selfish prick refuses to support the new family in any way, shape, or form] it is also no secret that some men are less than supportive of welcoming a child and subsequent financial burdening into their lives.  ["Less than welcoming" is code for him terroristically and self-servingly suing the mother for every cent she doesn't have.]
But what about the men who feel blessed to be a part of something so miraculous, something that could only change his life for the better? [I say have them track down all the dead-beat dads and also have them track down and beat the shit out of the rapers and batterers.]
All fathers should be celebrated for their role in the creation of a new child, and these fathers should be especially celebrated for their decision to welcome this gift into their lives for they serve as role models. [Except when these fellas serve as domineering, drug-addicted, alcoholic, two-timing, prostitute-procuring, physically and emotionally absent, physically, sexually, and emotionally abusive role models, I hope.]
This month, the staff of Students for Life of America [well, Jackie] urges you to do something special for your fathers who have all chosen to celebrate the gift you have been to them since your humble beginning [um, not all fathers have. many choose to escape from the constraints of family life]. Consider writing your father a thank you note. [Dead Daddy, thanks for fucking up my life by hitting Mommy and me with alcohol on your breath. And thanks for showing me what kind of awful man-qualities not to look for in friends and romantic partners] It’s simple and to the point, and with the whole world shifting to email and twitter, he might appreciate the extra effort. There are few better ways to tell someone how you feel than writing it down. [Yes, it was good to write it down there. The only problem is it'll need to be photocopied because I know so many women who were incested and raped by their fathers.] Men tend to be less emotional than women [good god, enough with the tired gender stereotypes, will you stop indoctrinating these kids with essentialist propaganda?!?], [we must suppose here, in his heterosexist mindset, that by "less emotional" Jackie means "vulnerable and open" not "emotional", because abusive, controlling patriarchal men demonstrate a great deal of emotion--lots of anger, moodiness, outbursts of rage, jealousy, and so on] but everyone appreciates being appreciated. [And not assaulted, dominated, or terrorised.] Find a funny card you know he’d appreciate, or devote your Facebook status to him for a day. Small, thoughtful efforts like these go a long way in shining a light on those who mean the most to us, and certainly do much to reflect a truly pro-life heart. [And, statistically, those who mean the most to us are women not because women are naturally, hormonally, or genetically more nurturing than nurturing men, but because so many men feel utterly entitled to be assholes.]
[This paragraph is by Hermes:] So there you have it. A stunningly obtuse tract defending patriarchal ideology under the guise of protecting cute and cuddly babies, and arguing for rolling back the age-old evilness of feminism (women have had rights over their own bodies, like, forEVER! and they're intrinsically treacherous!) and letting the poor, put-upon men have some for a change (men have, like, NEVER had power over women's bodies). Thanks Jackie, that sounds really great.
Julian here: I want to conclude my own responses by stating that Fathers' Rights activists reveal and revel in their patriarchal politics by not confronting men who control the institutions and social, cultural, religous, and economic circumstances in which women miscarry fetuses and abort pregnancies, in which women die during childbirth, by which are coerced to be heterosexual, in which women are forced to have heterosex, in which women are dominated by men, and in which men are led to believe they have a right of access to women's bodies. Unless or until Fathers Rights activists challenge other men to stop raping women and to end rape, to stop incesting their daughters and to end incest, to stop terrorising women at home and in the world, they will have no credibility among anyone other than their own members.

Wednesday, June 8, 2011

Yahoo!!! An example of taking on the anti-feminists at Yahoo Answers: "Why do certain people here pick on Andrea Dworkin?"

image of logo is from here

With thanks to Toto. Please click on the title to link to the website where the question and answers appear.

Open Question

Why do certain people here pick on Andrea Dworkin?

She was an amazing pioneer, and a personal hero of mine. Why do so many people here, women especially, seem to have such a problem with her? How is that not like hating Susan B. Anthony, or Valerie Solanas?
  • - 3 days left to answer.

Answers (9)

  • Thomas by Thomas
    Member since:
    March 23, 2011
    Total points:
    883 (Level 2)
    To be honest with you, I didn't mind her in her earlier years, but then she turned into a psychotic sounding radical feminist. She honestly thought men were beneath her and she is PART of the reason why so many people have disrespect for the movement. Not all feminists agreed with her.

    Source(s):

    Male feminist and equalist.
    • 2 people rated this as good

  • ksnake10 by ksnake10
    Member since:
    March 07, 2008
    Total points:
    13,078 (Level 6)
    The biggest mistake Andrea Dworkin made was her assertion that every time a woman has sex, she is actually being raped. This is such an erroneous statement, that it's hard to believe that Dworkin wasn't laughed out of academia. If all sex is rape, then why do so many women demand that a man thrust harder during sex? Only a maniac would yell "Harder! Harder!" if she was being raped. Dworkin really screwed up with that assertion, and it's a miracle that anyone took her seriously after that incredibly invalid observation.
    • 4 people rated this as good

  • Paradox by Paradox
    Member since:
    April 03, 2011
    Total points:
    1,343 (Level 3)
    @ Thomas - feminists cut her WAY more slack than you are led to believe.

    She's easy to pick on because i'm almost positive (but not exactly sure) she was the person who actually invented the "all men are rapist" theme.

    People who agree with her and nod their heads in approval are in realty, frightening.
    • 3 people rated this as good

  • Jade196  4.0 by Jade196 4.0
    Member since:
    April 22, 2011
    Total points:
    1,615 (Level 3)
    Andrea Dworkin Quotes

    1 - 2

    A commitment to sexual equality with males is a commitment to becoming the rich instead of the poor, the rapist instead of the raped, the murderer instead of the murdered.
    Andrea Dworkin

    As long as there is rape... there is not going to be any peace or justice or equality or freedom. You are not going to become what you want to become or who you want to become. You are not going to live in the world you want to live in.
    Andrea Dworkin

    Being a Jew, one learns to believe in the reality of cruelty and one learns to recognize indifference to human suffering as a fact.
    Andrea Dworkin

    Childbearing is glorified in part because women die from it.
    Andrea Dworkin

    Erotica is simply high-class pornography; better produced, better conceived, better executed, better packaged, designed for a better class of consumer.
    Andrea Dworkin

    Feminism is hated because women are hated. Anti-feminism is a direct expression of misogyny; it is the political defense of women hating.
    Andrea Dworkin

    Genocide begins, however improbably, in the conviction that classes of biological distinction indisputably sanction social and political discrimination.
    Andrea Dworkin

    Male supremacy is fused into the language, so that every sentence both heralds and affirms it.
    Andrea Dworkin

    Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership.
    Andrea Dworkin

    Men are distinguished from women by their commitment to do violence rather than to be victimized by it.
    Andrea Dworkin

    Men have defined the parameters of every subject. All feminist arguments, however radical in intent or consequence, are with or against assertions or premises implicit in the male system, which is made credible or authentic by the power of men to name.
    Andrea Dworkin

    Men know everything - all of them - all the time - no matter how stupid or inexperienced or arrogant or ignorant they are.
    Andrea Dworkin

    Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/author…

    Source(s):

    • Just read what she says. She's a man hater.
      • 4 people rated this as good
    • Seven by Seven
      Member since:
      September 20, 2010
      Total points:
      12,584 (Level 6)
      I think she was great. I mean, look at her and what she had to say. She helped prove that the stereotypes about feminists are actually true.
      • 3 people rated this as good


    • Tom by Tom
      Member since:
      August 25, 2010
      Total points:
      727 (Level 2)
      Because she is a crazy, sexist and twisted person?
      • 2 people rated this as good


    • Gaye Penguin by Gaye Penguin
      Member since:
      April 20, 2011
      Total points:
      489 (Level 2)
      Tom Leykis says stuff about women that is far worse, yet nobody has anything to say about him.
      • 19 hours ago
      • 1 person rated this as good


    • M-Just M by M-Just M
      A Top 
Contributor is someone who is knowledgeable in a particular category.
      Member since:
      January 01, 2008
      Total points:
      19,713 (Level 6)
      Badge Image:
      A Top 
Contributor is someone who is knowledgeable in a particular category.
      Contributing In:
      Gender Studies
      Because of her attitudes toward men.
      Because of her prudishness toward sexual expression.
      Because she does not write logically or coherently.


Toto's Answer:

I appreciate you asking the question, Geri - Feminist Pride!!

Criticizing men for being woman-haters isn't any more "hateful" than people of color pointing out how racist white people have been historically. Critique doesn't equal hate. It's the critique men want to avoid dealing with, so they charge her, and many other feminists, with being a hater or crazy instead.

To Thomas:
She wasn't psychotic. She was sane. She wrote without apology about things men do to women that men like to deny doing. She lived with a man for thirty years. She loved her father, brother, nephew, and life partner. Your remarks are not accurate or responsible.

To ksnake10:
She wasn't laughed out for one reason--she never said what you're claiming she said. She didn't screw up: you did. She was taken seriously. You should not be. Your response contains probably the most famous classic lie about Dworkin and her work that has been conclusively shown, beyond contradiction, to be a lie--an intentional lie spread around the web by trolls to discredit her, with no evidence she ever said or wrote it.

See Snopes.com, a trusted, responsible website which exists to refute lies or prove questionable statements truthful. (Link below.) Summary: the "all sex is rape" lie was started in Playboy magazine to discredit feminists like Andrea Dworkin and Catharine MacKinnon

See also the Lie Detector on an official Andrea Dworkin website. (Link below.) For example, her work discusses sex affirmatively and passionately many times.

To Paradox:
You put forth the same lie, but at least you write you are not sure it is the truth. It isn't the truth. Believing a writer who spoke out against rape and other violence against women is more scary than a rapist and the men who deny rape is a serious social problem is truly frightening. What's so scary about being anti-rape and anti-misogyny? She wasn't anti-man, and this is evidenced in the facts of her life--her whole life--and the facts in her books, her essays, and her speeches. You want proof? She these two speeches:

"Biological Superiority: The World's Most Dangerous and Deadly Idea" (Link below.)
"I Want A Twenty-Four Hour Truce During Which There is No Rape" (Link below.)

To Jade196 4.0: listing quotes is one of the least meaningful and laziest ways to try and represent someone's viewpoints that are discussed in full-length books that it appears you haven't bothered to read at all. That's intellectually sloppy, isn't it?

We continue to see no sophisticated, detailed, intelligent understanding of her work at all.

To Seven and Tom:
These comments are mean-spirited and anti-feminist. You offer nothing substantive or intelligent on the subject at all.

To Gaye Penguin:
Thank you. You note something far too common on Yahoo Answers and beyond: Tom and many other men on this website write all kinds of hateful, insulting, degrading things about feminists, but these very same commenters won't speak out about that. This shows they are here just to trash feminism. Cross them off the list of responsible commenters.

To M-Just M:
This person has clearly never read a single book of hers. A prude? Read either of her novels or just "First Love" (link below): hardly prudish! Funny how some of her critics accuse her both of being a prude and a pornographer! She was a brilliant and talented writer--whether or not you agree with her. 

A suggestion to all future commenters: it might be a good idea to read her work--several of her books--and learn to analyze fiction and non-fiction literature before making such irresponsible comments. Finally, see a blogger's response to a related question, for much more on what these trolls are doing here to discredit feminists and feminism. (Link below.)

Source(s):

Queer Studies: a non-academic discussion on gender radicalism and the politcs of interrogation

image is from here

                                               6 [x] Radical

A blogger recently wrote to me letting me know that my posts are sometimes rambling, without a central focus. I agree. It's how my mind works often enough and I don't have an editor. With on-going apologies, this is my home for my writings, and they' ll often appear here in rough form. I'd rather get my material out there to be honed another time, than not get it out there at all, which is exactly what happened for years. So, with some regret for the rambling posts that are, admittedly, hard to follow, here's the latest:

What happens when society and communities organise in the absence of radical feminist theory (and practice) on gender?

Answer: conservative and liberal agendas and perspectives flourish and any challenge to them is called hateful. 
Evidence follows...

As many radical people will tell you, our lives would have looked very different if we didn't come upon radical analysis and action designed to challenge society's ideological and institutional forces and moral and political imperatives. I had to question race and sex and gender in my life. To not do so would have been to betray every race-, sex-, and gender-oppressed person I know, including myself.

In white male supremacist societies I've been part of, there are two things that must be reinforced for the status quo to stay dominant: male supremacy and white supremacy. Without very intensive interrogation of and organised resistance to both those ideologies and forces, we are vulnerable to re-enacting them, recreating them, and reinforcing them.

The first criticism I get when I write things like that is this one: "Who are YOU to decide what RADICAL means??" Well, I'm not defining it for everyone. I'm defining it here, on my turf. You have to come here to find out my thoughts, and if you don't like 'em, you can easily steer clear of the place. Right? Yeah, you can.

I define "Radical" in many ways, not at all in keeping with how many whites and men do so. I'm not pro-Marxist, for example, and many white men define "radical" as "being a marxist". I'm not pro-Black Nationalism, because as I've understood it from Black feminist women, it's so masculist as to be anti-woman and anti-feminist too. But some Black men define "radical" as being Black Nationalist. To say I don't identify with those terms and political movements isn't to say I see no value in them. It is to say I also see where they are deeply problematic--meaning especially: heterosexist, gynocidal, or genocidal. I accept that the term "radical" isn't Absolute or ahistorical or transcultural in its meaning, but this doesn't mean it has no meaning or can be used to mean anything at all. The terms "gender radical" and "sex radical" are often used to describe actions which, to me, are anything but radical. They are usually liberal to conservative, as whites define and act out those terms.

I see most people using the term "radical" to mean "getting at the root problem". This means, often enough, not willing to settle for social change strategies that only trim branches, are only assimiliationist, and which refuse to dig out the difficult answers to difficult questions--such as "What is gender?" The radicals I know are the deepest thinkers I know, and are among the most smartest people I know--emotionally and intellectually, not "logistically" or "rationally", which some libertarians seem to think is the only kind of intelligence there is. That's masculist CRAP.

I understand "radicalism" in a context--the one I live in--which is white het male supremacist. This means I've got to interrogate what is white, het, and male supremacist in my views--constantly. Including when I try and come up with a definition of radical. I have defined it several times here, and one of those times is in this post *here*. Indigenism and feminism are the two spiritual-political philosophies that inform my work. As noted in that post, "radical" from an Indigenist point of view might look "conservative" to others. If we're seeking to conserve Indigenist ways of being and doing, we move radically outside the ways of the White Man.

What is unquestionably useful to me about radical feminism--which comes to me from women of all colors, not just white women. Too often I see whites claim the term "radical" as if it belongs only to them. That's fucking racist, to me, and I won't support a radicalism that is owned and occupied by whites who refuse to acknowledge their own white power, privilege, and entitlements.

Gender and sex are incredibly complicated social-personal phenomena. They are not set in stone; they are not uniform; they share many things across cultures but that doesn't mean we can just assume that "gender" is one thing only. Too many whites do this, in my experience. And far too many men.

Politically activist whites who won't interrogate whiteness, and politically activist men who won't address the political harm of manhood as it is constructed and enforced socially, don't get called "radical" by me. Nor do homophobes and lesbophobes. Nor do classists.

As someone who is Jewish, white, male, gay, intergender, asexual, class privileged, and disabled, I look at radicalism through all those lenses of experience.

And I don't assume that if I were Muslim, Black, transsexual, not asexual, poor, and not disabled that I'd hold exactly the same views. This means we'd better be in dialogue, attempting to and succeeding in hearing one another. I don't always do that. Lately especially. I'm often closed to hearing critique, if I'm getting a whole lot of it to the point that it all blurrs together, so individual voices of critique are not distinguishable to me. That's a private-internal experience--I don't always know when that's occurring until I'm in the thick of it. And lately I've found myself in conversations that are loaded with critique and I find myself checking out of them. I won't get into what I think is going on. I want to move on to the topic at hand: transsexuality, transgender experience, and this blogger's radical pro-feminist analysis of gender and sex.

Without that perspective, which has deepened and grown over the decades, I'd be VERY vulnerable to much more white het male conservative philosophies and political pressures to conform--which means to reinforce and enact white het male supremacy in my own life, including in my expressed ideas and feelings.

What radical feminism has done to my understandings of gender and sex cannot be underestimated. I am eternally grateful to all the women of all regions and colors who have been fighting in a very real war which men, by and large, deny exists--men's war against women. By and large, men want to pretend that, if anything, there's a war between the sexes, which neatly positions women on the same ground as men, as if men don't dominate women; as if men are not atop a social-economic-political-religious hierarchy.

Here's a theoretical hypothesis:
In the white het male supremacist West, where radical feminism is rejected, male supremacy thrives.  

Radical feminism is the antidote to male supremacy. It is the only political perspective designed to eradicate male supremacy branch and root: the only one. But that doesn't mean it is only one thing. It is an alive, diverse, and complex set of movements and practices. It shifts from culture to culture and time to time. But rooting out male supremacy is what it is designed to do. In a sense, it lives to do this.


To test this theoretcal hypothesis, I'd have to look at various communities and groups in the white West--which is where I'm located; I don't trust myself to examine societies I'm not part of without bringing into the analysis my own white, Western biases.

In this post, I'm going to very preliminarily and briefly look at three groups: white het men's activist beliefs, white gay men's activist beliefs, and white transgender and transexual activist beliefs. We ought also note how white supremacy and racism are embedded in the views and practices being examined.

1. White Het Activist Men's views and values. Most of these men belief they are fighting for justice, but myopically can only determine something to be "just" if it benefits white het men with class-privilege. The self-serving nature of this viewpoint and activism ought to be readily evident. The political programs put forth by MRAs are classist, racist, heterosexist, and misogynist. All you need to do to see this is to read the material put out by them. And visit their websites: they are loaded up with the most vile bigotry and inaccuracies about every group who isn't them; they're also not terribly insightful about their own group. WHM's activism to promote the agendas of white het men is in direct opposition to anti-racism work and pro-feminist work.

2. White gay men's activism has historically served--surprise!--white gay men, and not lesbian women of any color. White women may benefit some from the white supremacy in the political efforts, and men of color may benefit some from the male supremacy in the political efforts, but not on the deepest levels, in my view. So movements to get queers in the military and to get queer marriage in the US will necessarily mean supporting the racism and misogyny in the military and in marriage--deliberately or not. Marriage is a misogynist and racist and heterosexist institution. It is woefully naive to think that if a long-standing oppressive institution just lets in people who have been kept outside if, it will be radically transformed into one that is no longer racist, misogynistic, and heterosexist. This idea--that things change radically by allowing more people in, is liberal to the core. White gay men's political movements are racist and misogynistic. Any movement that marginalises groups of oppressed people isn't going to do much to liberate those people who are cast out or never let into leadership positions.

3. White "trans" realities--whether transsexual or transgender, have thrived at a time when radical feminism in the US was mostly dead. This means it is very likely to have a radical perspective on gender and sex. Unless it generates its own radicalism, which is entirely possible. When I see the most progressive perspectives put forth by trans activists, I don't see much that is other than conservative or liberal however. Even people who promote more progressive views, like Dean Spade, do not appear to me to hold a very radical view on gender as a structural, political reality that one is raised into despite what one feels about oneself.

This means that deep understandings of how gender works socially are not usually appreciated or respected, and the knowledge and analysis of radical feminists is either ignored or assumed to be anti-trans. It means that trans people (and conservative non-trans people) can promote an idea that we can or ought to be able to name ourselves when girls and women who are not trans, ESPECIALLY of color, have no such power or privilege or entitlement to do so. Too many women of color are told they are not women (or are not womanly) because they are not white. Women of color ought to be supported in claiming an identity as a woman. Dean Spade argues for eliminating gender-specific terms. How is that not misogynistic and racist?

Another point:
I've heard trans activists target radical lesbian feminists without similarly targeting white het men. Why would that be? Do radical feminists have more structural or any other kind of power than white het men? The two groups ought not be similarly targeted: one is oppressed and marginalised; the other is dominant and centrally located in society. I've also seen a lot of energy directed at trans people, on what are reportedly "radical" feminist blogs. The blogs are almost all white--to an alarming degree. The blogs do not demonstrate an analysis if whiteness. So I don't see them as radical.

When I think about a radical viewpoint, it isn't totalitarian in tone or absolute in assumption. It is not carved in stone but neither is it written in the sand. It has integrity, substance, and power. The power it has is to transform oppressive society into liberatory society.

If you scout around in the blogosphere, you'll be hard-pressed to find blogs that don't do one of two things: trash trans people or trash radical lesbian feminists. I reject both as hopelessly unconstructive.

I look to bloggers who are engaging with the issues before us, but not by positioning oneself as superior, more intelligent, or less bigoted than another.

One such blogger is dedgurl. She has a blog called The Vagina Conspiracy. You can find that blog linked to *here*. I encourage you to pay close attention to what she's saying there. The host is trans, a woman, a radical, and a feminist.

One argument put forth by some progressive trans activists is that because gender isn't biological, it ought not be assumed that all females are girls or women, and all males are boys or men. There's a lot that is flawed in such a perspective. One thing that's flawed about it is this: it assumes that by changing what we name each other, or what we identify as, that we are able to radically change our political location, or radically alter our structural position in society.

If I call myself trans, and I do, this doesn't stop me from occupying a social-structural space that is historically informed and currently bolstered by male power, privileges, and entitlements. For other people who were identified as male at birth, who were raised to be boys, who are identified in adulthood as men, the complex of power, privileges, and entitlement, along with places of marginalisation, discrimination, and unwelcomed acquisition of stigmas will be different.

But, in my case, while I don't personally choose to call myself a man--and never have been comfortable doing so--I won't call myself a woman. I don't believe we are one or the other only; I believe society makes us into one or the other to a large degree, but not absolutely.

To believe that people change their location completely by becoming an identity that is at another end of a politically enforced social hierarchy is, to me, to not understand how power, privilege, and entitlements work. These things don't disappear; even if they can be taken away or reduced to some degree. Coming out as gay, for example, well before I came out as intergender, did not bolster my male privileges. But it didn't take away the effects of being raised as a male. I still feel entitled to speak, entitled to be right, entitled to believe I know things I don't know jack shit about, entitled to answer questions based on thinking that if words leave my mouth, there's probably something correct about them.

There are tons of male privileges and entitlements I see in myself--coming out as gay didn't modify them appreciably although it did help ensure that I wouldn't have all the male privileges that white het men have.

I grew up being constructed to have the entitlements and privileges socially and psychically, and once located and learned, there they are. It is for me to be aware of them, to keep them in check, and to own and be responsible for when they show up socially; I do this, in part, by not forgetting where I am located structurally in society.

Another privilege, though, is to believe I don't have to be accountable for my actions. So while I see it as a radical profeminist value to be responsible, my male supremacist upbringing has another perspective on the matter. It often enough wants to tell anyone who disagrees with me to fuck off. Here's another set of privileges and entitlements: the practice of visually violating people. I have felt very entitled to do this. To objectify others if it pleased me to do so. To not be in struggle with that as an aggressive act of political-personal violation of other human beings. I have figured out how to not do it, and how to be responsibly non-violating when around other people. But it sure wasn't men (straight, bi, or gay) who encouraged me to take responsibility. Quite the opposite--men seek to protect one another's "right" (wrong) to violate people in any number of ways. To take possession of people, to acquire from them what we want and call it "ours". This shows up in some allegedly pro-trans medical and social practices. See the white middle class entirely unradical film, Red Without Blue for more. I've written about it in this past post, *here*.

If someone is raised poor and becomes rich, they don't become someone who was never poor. And being raised poor does shape a person to various degrees; it's safe to say it doesn't ever have no effect whatsoever on how one views oneself; it has a structural location so it comes with its own resources for some kinds of power and lack of resources for other kinds of power. Poor people are not made to feel superior to rich people, economically or socially, for example. And they are not welcomed in places that only serve rich people--unless they are the people doing the serving.

If someone is rich and becomes poor, they don't become someone who was always poor and never rich. I've heard class-privileged people declare themselves poor because they have no cash at the moment. This, to me, shows a lot of ignorance about what being poor (and rich) means. If they can call their parents to be wired some money to pay rent or get some food, they're not poor even when they are cashless. Why? Because they're not really cashless. Their social-economic network has reserves of cash. That's not the case with poor people. There's usually no rich uncle or mother to call for support.

I've heard whites declare themselves "not white" because they grew up in a neighborhood of color. This, to me, shows a really ignorant understanding of what it means to be white and of color.

I see people who were raised being identified as male, as boys, coming into identity as a woman and believing this means they are "only women". Why doesn't this mean we are "trans"? Why the rush to distance ourselves from who we are? Why isn't that insistence on being "a woman" or "a man" called "being transphobic"? Why is it presumed acceptable for M2F transsexual people to insist that we are exactly the same, structurally, positionally, in location, in privileges, in entitlements, in power--in all its forms, as people who were never identified as male? This appears to me to be a question most trans folks will not take up seriously. Instead, anyone who asks it is written off as transphobic. But it's a bit too important to just write off as coming from the minds of transphobes, isn't it?

One transsexual person once said to me, "Why are trans people the only group in queer culture to have to interrogate the meaning of who we are?!" My response is this: EVERY group in queer culture is required to interrogate who we are!" Lesbians are interrogated; gay males are interrogated; bi people are interrogated. And for you to not know that indicates you haven't been in queer cultures very long.

The same transsexual person who came here, once told me that patriarchy isn't real. They put forth classically liberal and conservative views and didn't understand how the immersion in those perspectives necessarily shapes one's own understanding of oneself.

I've had plenty of people tell me I'm transphobic, even while I argue for us embracing the term "trans" and not pretending we're not trans if we are. What's transphobic about that? The fact that I see gender as something that happens to someone from birth to death--and that it isn't entirely alterable by surgery or medical interventions? Where's the anti-trans bigotry in such a viewpoint?

This isn't to say I'm not transphobic. I'm racist, heterosexist, sexist, and transphobic. But that doesn't mean that everything that spills out of my mouth, or off my fingertips, is dripping with transphobia.

Another point:
I know plenty of non-trans people who use surgery and medical interventions--from cosmetic surgery to hormone replacement--to shore up their gender identities. I don't argue that non-trans people who don't have that done, if born being identified as a girl, are less a woman as an adult than those who have the procedures done.

But I am asked, by legal folks and doctors, as well as the corporate (racist, misogynist, heterosexist, classist) media, to identify M2F transsexual people as "more womanly" after they have surgery than before. If it's something one was since birth, how does someone become "more womanly" after surgery?

If trans people argue that we always were the gender we weren't assigned, what is that saying about "gender"? What does that mean "gender" is? Is asking for respectful, safe dialogue on this question "transphobic"? I welcome the argument that it necessarily is and that it can only ever be transphobic.

To me, if we're saying we were born into a body that has been assigned the wrong gender, that means it is an entirely psychological, internal experience. Gender happens to people. We are assigned a course in life--females are assigned a course that makes them more vulnerable to harassment, violation, discrimination, and degradation than males are. The process of being treated that way, for some radical feminists, is the process of acquiring a gender. One isn't born with one--it happens to us in social, structural, economic, cultural ways.

Some trans people who are not called "transphobic" argue it is also entirely biological, which ought to put them at odds with the trans people who argue gender isn't based on biology. Gender is a complex of things--"social", "structural", "political", and positional" are some of the things it is, from this radical profeminist's point of view. To deny this is to be anti-radical on gender, to me. It is also functionally male supremacist.

I don't hear, in the voices of trans people who have visited me here, any imperative to name and eradicate male supremacy from society. For those who are made to be women, and who know what that means, getting rid of male supremacy is rather important political work. How is someone arguing gender is not socially enforced on females raised as girls not anti-feminist?

Another point:
I've heard a Women's Health Center be critiqued for being transphobic for having the woman symbol (the same symbol as the one for Venus in astrology), used on the signage. Wow. Does anyone get how antifeminist it is to make it "transphobic" (meaning here: anti-trans woman) to identify as politically woman-centered?

image is from here
To me, this would be like telling gay men to stop using "pink" in our signage because it is sexist. Huh? This is like saying that African Americans using the term "Black" is racist. Huh?

Another point:
When did it get determined--and how, and in what political gestalt--that being transphobic is worse than being a misogynist or antifeminist? Across liberal white middle class blogs, I see people scrambling to make sure they can't or won't be seen and labeled as transphobic, and they're being racist, misogynistic, and antifeminist in the process. That should tell you a lot about the reality I hypothesized earlier: when social change movements occur in anti-radical feminist times, they are likely to promote male supremacy--white male supremacy in this society. I see so many liberal non-trans people being quick to own their "cis-gender" privilege without holding any radical analysis of that term at all. Why is that? Aren't they feminist any more? 

On cis-gender privilege:
This term needs some serious unpacking. Because most trans people have what is determined to be "cis-gender privilege" after all--they are not planning to have surgery; they do not significantly change their appearance across adulthood--any more than non-trans people do; they are not identifiable as "trans" according to the stereotypes and transphobic assumptions about what it means to be trans.

And many non-trans people don't have cis-gender privilege. Do you hear me telling you that the Emperor is wearing no clothes? Do you hear me identifying a white elephant in the room? I hope so.

So what does it mean?

I've interrogated this as well. See *here* for more. What it appears to mean requires us to stereotype in transphobic ways what it means to be trans. It often means passing through the social-medical world without having ones gender called into question, without being humiliated and violated by medical professionals asking really ridiculous questions about one's sexual, gendered self. Well, I hate to inform the white middle class trans folks out there promoting this idea of "cis-gender privilege" but many women of color who are not trans and who are not middle class have that experience. However we look at "cis-gender privilege" it doesn't hold together in any meaningful way at all, unless we stereotype trans AND non-trans people, believing they each have a very different (and stunningly unified) experience of genderedness. To come to that conclusion, I'd argue, is woefully transphobic.

I'll close by saying that I don't believe you can radically alter gender personally or socially while leaving male supremacy in place, unchallenged or only liberally challenged. In the opinion of this blogger, promoting and defending social and political programs in male-dominated, male-controlled society that aim to diversity gender without eradicating male supremacy and patriarchy, that refuse to name and attempt to halt all the normal and systemic violence which makes humans gendered into woman and man, is anti-radical and anti-woman, and transphobic in that it doesn't alleviate the violence done to trans people.

I'll leave it here. Comments that are not transphobic, anti-feminist, anti-lesbian, or anti-woman (as I define those terms) are welcome.

For more on a revolutionary, radical queer agenda, see *here*.