tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post3773626590974805499..comments2024-03-13T11:14:26.768-04:00Comments on A Radical Profeminist: "Unpacking The Male Privilege Jockstrap"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-27331083524200111512020-06-18T17:20:02.582-04:002020-06-18T17:20:02.582-04:00The following comment is the rest of my precedent ...The following comment is the rest of my precedent one (even thoughI feel like manually approving what comments appear on the page is a bit of censorship but ok)<br />45. Yes but you are still getting called a dumb motherfucker. People use feminine words to talk to women because they are women. It's the principle of insult, like you will call a woman a bitch but a man a son of a bitch, it's logical (slut shaming though, but again, the principle of insults).<br />46. Female privilege. Women can wear almost anything they want, besides maybe tuxedos, without being judges. Men can't however wear skirts, dresses, or any "feminine" clothes without people questioning their masculinity. Women hae the priviledge of not realizing wearing a skirt or pants is a priviledge (in western society at least).<br />48. Because men have a restricted range of outfits. Of course you can come to any fancy dinner wih the same suit because wearing anything else would be inappropriate.<br />66. Women can kiss men without getting beaten up... if it's about not being able to kiss women, men can't kiss men either, I'm not sure to understand...<br />70. Is that a privilege ? Gay sex is condemn, do yo mean men getting raped by penetration of their orifices is recognized as a rape ? It's true, but non penetrative rape isn't and it's much more frequent...<br />71. Well yeah since heteronormative relationships are expected to be with a penetrative men and a penetrated woman. Men can also spend their entire life without being penetrated, and women can spend their entire life without penetrated someone, which is a shame because it's nice. And women weren't born with a sign reading "cum on me" on their forehead. <br />79. Don't buy them then. You have the privilege to have a large choice of clothing, take advantage of it<br />86. Race problem ? Not sexist <br />88. Having a dick in common is not enough to identify with a person. At all. I don't think women identify to Hillary Clinton because they have a vagina.<br />90. Capitalism problem, not man privilege.<br />91. What ? Women can do this as well. And no. They face charges unles they are part of the influencing elite (like movie producers)<br />92. Huge privilege to be expected to be violent and disturbing and not calm and quiet<br />93. What ? Where do you live, in Somalia ? Almost no man will ever tell you "wanna rape her ? yeah go ahead she's here for that" or if this is true then wtf are even the US<br />95. In fact most guys don't talk about their feelings because they aren't expected to show them. Women tend to speak more freely and openly about their sexuality than men. (my experience, and personal experience is not a reliable source of proofs)<br />96. There are two options when you make a rape joke, a with any other kind of dark humor like racist or homophobic jokes : either the people you're with know you well and know that it's just a joke and that you don't mean it, or you get called a creepy motherfucker. Nothing to do with gender. You don't get called sexist by making a rape joke, you just get called an asshole.<br />98. Absolutely false. It doesn't get called "hysteria" it gets called toxic masculinity, masculinism or fascism<br />99. Just like some feminist do : if you live your whole life without encountering difference, you will never get new experiences and will just be weaker (just like inbreeding makes kids weaker by the lack of new genes)<br />It has been twelve years so your opinion may have changed but still, as I told you about new experiences, I think getting new thoughts on this article can't be bad for the sake of argumentation and reflexion :) have a nice day ! <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-1849703688882560082020-06-18T17:18:54.149-04:002020-06-18T17:18:54.149-04:00Hi. I doubt anyone will ever see this but I will a...Hi. I doubt anyone will ever see this but I will add my opinion of a cisgender queer white atheist first world but not English speaking men, on the points I want to add nuances. The ones I don't adress are fine for me. <br />2. Well it is since you say that men are more likely to be hired. Not by the majority though<br />4. It is since men are expected to accomplish something<br />5. No sexual harassment is negligible. I agree it is super low but saying is negligible is oppressing a minority which is not nice.<br />7. Same as 5.<br />10. Yes it will since men are traditionnaly expected to provide for their family. It's just in a different way<br />12. Depends on the career. I fthe guy works on a boat and only comes home 2 weeks a year, people will not see it nicely<br />17. "heroes" for boys are extremely stereotypical and convey a false idea of the male body and occupation (superman, super muscular soldiers...)<br />18. Girls are often advantaged because boys are seen as loud and disturbing whereas girl are seen as more serious, mature and calm. So no<br />20. Class and racism problem, not sexism. There are plenty of women on the tv, a bit less as men though<br />24. Men who sleep with a lot of people will usually be not well considered either, just not in the same way<br />26. Priorities. Most of men just don't care, women can do the same<br />28. No. Absolutely not. Bald or fat men have zero chance, very skinny guys have a bit more but not much. Short guys have it hard too. There is a "beautiful" man trope of the tall, muscular and determined mman just as a trope of skinny but curvy women. Fat or flat women have it hard but they're not alone. And feminine guys are as much absent of the media as butch women if not more.<br />29. Loud, agressive men will be called dumb motherfuckers. Men don't have a "be loud and annoying pass".<br />30. What ? What violence are you talking about ? When men try to adress men issues, they are rejected. <br />31. Because "man" was usually used as a synonym of human. And most lanuages on earth use genders for every single noun so yeah, we cope with it.<br />40. There are plenty of sexualized images of men in public spaces, though less than women. And mainstream pornography objectifies men too. Think about how often you see the guy's face. We're not a penis with legs.<br />41. No because underweight guys are not well seen and we are expected to have pounds of muscle. But women aren't expected to be underweight. To be underweight or not is a question of metabolism, not appearance. You can be skinny and be fine, you can have nice curves and be fine, you can be overweight, you can be anorexic, however the last two imply eventual health issues.<br />42. It happens more frequently than thought because like women are rejected when they try to confess a rape, men are taught to "be a man" and female to male agressions are laughed at.<br />43. Women have the privilege of being unaware of their privileges (not being drafted, lower suicide rates, death in workplace rate, dangerous jobs rate, manual job rates, higher degrees of education, rate of child custody, lower sentences, emphasis on breast cancer whereas prostate cancer is forgotten, etc)<br />44. True but that doesn't mean men aren't judged when they curse<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-55832933892009893092009-11-30T03:48:24.741-05:002009-11-30T03:48:24.741-05:00Hi flying alone,
I certainly here where you are c...Hi flying alone,<br /><br />I certainly here where you are coming from, and agree, to some degree. I think it was when a list was made, in an exercise I did at an anti-racism workshop, that detailed all the many terms for darkness and blackness that had negative connotations, and how often I'd hear white people use those terms, and it made me uncomfortable. <br /><br />This was sort of validated, this sense that "maybe there's something to this connection linguistically" when I read <i>Dreaming The Dark</i>. It confirmed that such language--black or dark as evil--was used during the process of white people conquering darker-skinned people.<br /><br />But that ought not take away from your point. And thank you for making it. Because surely there are times when such terms are not used in ways meant at all to be racist.Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-90690802336306155032009-11-30T01:33:48.742-05:002009-11-30T01:33:48.742-05:00Ok, I already commented about the language thing, ...Ok, I already commented about the language thing, but I noticed another thing as I re-read the list. While reading it, if one thing struck me as unfair, then there was a very good chance that the next thing would too until I would start feeling a little bitter. But then I would go back and realize that only the idea that set me off was a problem and the following ones were perfectly legit. I wonder how often this happens to us without our knowing?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-56297808075500007422009-11-30T01:06:02.709-05:002009-11-30T01:06:02.709-05:00While I absolutely agree with just about everythin...While I absolutely agree with just about everything, I'm going to nit-pick about language. You talk about the phrase "black-mark" being racist language, and in some respects I can certainly see this as being the case. However, I see no reason to believe that the relation of the colour black to evil, that we have in so many languages is in-itself racist in origin. Black is the colour of darkness, at night when we can't see things and we had nightmares as children. This is why black is associated with evil. Can this lead to racism? Certainly. But the child that learns to associate darkness with the monster under his bed is blameless.<br />Essentially these phrases are perfectly legitimate in most circumstances, and arise from harmless origins. Lets all restrain ourselves from giving mere words more power then they are intended to have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-79997028014586138172009-10-02T13:48:26.872-04:002009-10-02T13:48:26.872-04:00P.S.
I hear you saying this about that item:
71....P.S.<br /><br />I hear you saying this about that item:<br /><br />71. If heterosexual, I can go through life without my body being penetrated by a penis, and without ejaculate being dispensed on my face or other areas of my body.<br /><br />I hear you saying that since I don't identify what the experiences feel like or are for the women, there is an implication I think penetration, for example, is inherently harmful.<br /><br />I'm making a couple of points, just to further clarify.<br /><br />Ask your heterosexual male students if they think it is an advantage in life, or a disadvantage, to go through life not being penetrated by a penis and also ejaculated on. Then ask them why, if they say yes.<br /><br />My point is that I'd be very, very surprised if heterosexual males think it would be BETTER for their lives if they WERE penetrated by penises and also ejaculated on.<br /><br />And they can express the politics of that as well as anyone, I suspect. (They know how penetration and ejaculation are used to degrade women.) Such behavior may not always be degrading, or violating, or harmful, but heterosexual males, by and large, know very well that in the real world, as it exists, these acts are often done to humiliate and otherwise harm women.<br /><br />Hence the way we use the terms that refer to male penile penetration of a female (or anyone), and how we use the terms related to semen. "I jizzed all over her face" is not usually a term of respect for women, right? And when people tell one another to "go fuck themselves" they aren't recommending "having a pleasurable time", right?<br /><br />Feminists observe and challenge what men do, and then get accused of creating that link in the first place. That is NEVER the case. Reality is this: women experience things men do as degrading, in large part because men mean them to be degrading. And men don't wish to be accountable to that, and don't wish to hand women the power to name reality as they experience it, not as men want to name it to hide our oppressive ways.<br /><br />The wealthier rapist men in the world want to call their rapist actions "sex" and get defense attorneys to do just that. Or they want to blame women for being raped. Or they think women are there to be raped. Or they "only" think women are there to be "penetrated" and "ejaculated on", which is clearly the message of much pornography.<br /><br />I hope that's clearer now, and feel free to include our discussion here in the comments section if you share the list with students. Again, thanks for your work.Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-5873620245352913822009-10-02T13:33:01.215-04:002009-10-02T13:33:01.215-04:00Hi Anonymous.
I wonder if you're talking abou...Hi Anonymous.<br /><br />I wonder if you're talking about #71??? (Let me know.)<br /><br /><i>71. If heterosexual, I can go through life without my body being penetrated by a penis, and without ejaculate being dispensed on my face or other areas of my body.</i><br /><br />No, I'm not saying those things should happen to heterosexual men. (I'm curious to know why you would even think that was an implication of that item as it is written?) <br /><br />I'm saying it is a heteromale privilege that it DOESN'T happen to them, generally: that heterosexual men can go through their lives without being degraded by men who think and act as though penetration and ejaculation are "cools ways to humiliate, degrade, and violate women". (Please don't lose the context and the specificity here: to the extent that men use penetration to harm and degrade women, it is used that way to accomplish that goal. To the extent that women experience penetration as degradation, violation, and harm, is the extent to which that is the case.)<br /><br />I'm not speaking here of what gay men enjoy. It's not on topic. The issue in that item, and generally in this post, is is to name the ways heterosexual men, primarily, but all men in some cases, get to act out male privilege against women.<br /><br />To point out the abusive privileges of one oppressor group is not to argue that that oppressor group should also experience that. <br /><br />We have to keep what I say located in actual reality, not in a fantasy world. I'm speaking about what happens and the effect it does have, on real people, called women.<br /><br />Please see <a href="http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/WarZoneChaptIIIE.html" rel="nofollow">this speech</a> for more on that, for more about what justice and equality means in feminist terms, not in masculinist terms. <br /><br />You ask and say:<br /><i>1. Do you see the act of penetration itself as violence? <br /><br />2. Some feminists argue that if women enjoy ejaculation then it is a part of their sexual freedom to do so. <br /><br />3. Are you saying that is it not? In other words, the item is unclear.</i><br /><br />I don't find it to be unclear, as long as folks don't read into it that it's saying what it's not. But I'll answer the questions and comments you raise above, just to be clearer.<br /><br />to 1: No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying, right now, here, that the way many women experience penetration from men is as degradation and violation and as an act of sexual subordination, sometimes also as overt violence. And some women don't experience it as any of those things most of the time.<br /><br />to 2: I know of no woman who enjoys being ejaculated on, when that happens on her face. And if any woman does, that's not "sexual freedom", that's enjoying a practice that many women experience as degrading, in large part because when men do it they are meaning to degrade women. (Such as in heterosexual pornography.)<br /><br />There's no "sexual freedom" in doing what society says you should enjoy when it harms other women. That's not freedom in any real sense, in my view. That's "having a personal preference". Freedom, here, is about something far more structural, institutional, systemic and far reaching, and applies to a class of human beings, not one or two who like something that many find oppressive. That's how I understand the term "freedom" although I get how "sex pos" men and women use the term "sexual freedom" to mean anything at all, in the most liberal, anti-women-as-a-class ways.<br /><br />So please teach away, but make clear what I say above, ok? And please teach boys how to hear it when women say it, not just when men say it. Because boys need to learn to listen to women who are calling for justice for women.<br /><br />Thanks for writing to get clarification. I appreciate it, and thanks so much for the work you do in the classroom. I wish there were more people doing it.<br /><br />And if you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Your questions are more than likely on other people's minds as well.Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-74338599538186894822009-10-02T07:33:39.426-04:002009-10-02T07:33:39.426-04:00I came across your blog when I was looking for the...I came across your blog when I was looking for the original article. You have added some great comments but there is one that I think is very subjective. That is number 73 about the penis and ejaculation. Are you saying that heterosexual men should have these things happen to them and if so what would it accomplish? Also I know homosexual men who actually like being penetrated as well as the ejaculation just as some women enjoy penetration and ejaculation. So I am trying to understand the exact meaning of that particular item on the list. I am familiar with the article by McIntosh as well as Deutsch and I regularly teach these articles in my classes. You have some great points but I was somewhat thrown off by that one. Do you see the act of penetration itself as violence? Some feminists argue that if women enjoy ejaculation then it is a part of their sexual freedom to do so. Are you saying that is it not? In other words, the item is unclear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-17148809425909287092008-10-08T10:52:00.000-04:002008-10-08T10:52:00.000-04:00P.S. I do not think it ought to be women's duty or...P.S. <BR/><BR/>I do not think it ought to be women's duty or obligation to demand more humanity and responsibility out of men, however. And I know that burden will likely fall on women's shoulders.<BR/><BR/>I believe it is profeminist/Womanist men's duty, and <I>all</I> men's duty, to call out one another, to hold one another accountable, to expose one another's sexist/misogynist behaviors, and never to protect men in the name of any form of brotherhood or self-protection.<BR/><BR/>As one feminist brought to my attention, I ought to have initially written more about Barry's deceptive activities at least as a preface to my piece which incorporates his 'male privileges' list. Not doing so was my error in my judgment.Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-56538719310113427982008-10-08T10:44:00.000-04:002008-10-08T10:44:00.000-04:00Hello Sis.Thank you for taking the time to post a ...Hello Sis.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for taking the time to post a comment here, about this matter in particular. And please see the blog entry that follows this one, more concretely addressing this issue.<BR/><BR/>"Profeminist male privileges" is a category unto itself, in some ways, which further allows men who (may) gain the trust of Womanists and feminists to betray all women in so many despicable ways, too often terribly hurting, violating, or humiliating individual women in the process. I'd like to think that we "profeminist men" have a deeper level of understanding and empathy about what our sexism and misogyny does, but alas, not so, far too often.<BR/><BR/>I fully believe men, profeminist or not, will chronically behave in male supremacist ways until more is demanded of us in the areas of responsibility, accountability, honestly, and "transparency".<BR/><BR/>I very much appreciate your input.Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-44831626578509559832008-10-04T13:01:00.000-04:002008-10-04T13:01:00.000-04:00I can earn income off the prostitution of women on...I can earn income off the prostitution of women on my blog domain where I feature links to pornography (aka filmed prostitution) of young women, ethnic women and women of color, and some feminists and feminist issue bloggers will call me a feminist and support my right to earn income off the sexual abuse of women. <BR/><BR/>SisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com