tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post7615297792411934592..comments2024-03-13T11:14:26.768-04:00Comments on A Radical Profeminist: BEHOLD SEXISM-IN-ACTION: When MEN do it, it's called Telling The Truth about Women. When WOMEN do it, it's called "Being a Misandrist" ... go figureUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-92193702710530847182010-07-30T22:58:53.367-04:002010-07-30T22:58:53.367-04:00The other thing is that there was vigourous debate...<i>The other thing is that there was vigourous debate between the parties involved, pointing to the fact that the males had enough repesct for women to take the argument seriously.</i><br /><br />That isn't an argument that what the men say isn't sexist. We often have conflicting feelings about each other; the issue is whether we choose to express some of our feelings in ways that identify how we feel, or in ways that label women in negative ways.<br /><br /><i>Are the two men friends who are arguing with women who are not as good of friends, are thier other dynamics to this beside men vs. women and the reality of patriarcy.</i><br /><br />I agree. I think the language the men use is also misogyistically racist.<br /><br /><i>Frankly if his is an example of sexism in our generation I think thinks are looking great,</i><br /><br />Why? Why are any signs of sexism evidence that things are looking great? For whom? For the women experiencing the sexism? Or for the men who get to use those terms?<br /><br /><i>the men clearly felt they had to respond to the women (true misognysts feel that to be degrading),</i><br /><br />I don't think that separations being "sexist men" and "misogynistic men" are so easily distinguished as you do. I am an anti-sexism male and I'm very capable of doing things that can have the effect of being misogynistic. It's the experience of my actions as named by the woman or women impacted that matters most--not how I see what I've done. Also, would you agree with this:<br /><br />Feminist women are experts at identifying sexism. Sexist men are not.<br /><br /><i>and thier did not appear to be any power disparities brought on by partiarcy in the conversaions, all those invovled had eqaul power (except of course the guy whose wall it was, he has the power o delete things).</i><br /><br />I don't agree that men bonding over calling women negative names is an expression of equal power among all concerned. She is targeted and being targeted publicly in ways none of the males were. How is that equality?<br /><br /><i>patriarchy is real, though significantly diminished,</i><br /><br />I disagree with that assessment. I think patriarchy is as virulent as ever, and has not diminished. The women I know don't report experiencing less sexism.<br /><br /><i>but I think this is a very poor example of it.</i><br /><br />I accept that as your view. But it seems to me that you ignore a lot of what I said in the post, and that you also fail to note how this plays out in the follow-up image at the bottom of the post.<br /><br />I apologise to you for not linking this post to the one that goes into more of the history--what happened both before and after the story above. So please check that out <a href="http://radicalprofeminist.blogspot.com/2010/06/sexsm-in-action-part-2-masculist.html" rel="nofollow">SEXISM-IN-ACTION, Part 2, *here*</a> and let me know whether you think this man is not behaving in a sexist and misogynist way.Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-42304252154354080902010-07-30T22:53:08.361-04:002010-07-30T22:53:08.361-04:00Hello M. Tajbakhsh.
I'll respond to various p...Hello M. Tajbakhsh.<br /><br />I'll respond to various parts of your comment here:<br /><br /><i>Intresting, here is my take, I didn't see anything overtly sexist in the FB conversation.</i><br /><br />My first question to you is: are you a man? I'm curious. I'm not asking in order to dismiss what you say, as you'll see. But, in my experience, men don't see sexism where it exists, so I'm wondering.<br /><br /><i>Calling a women crazy, tends to be normal among men, and for straight men, that often comes from the reality that women are relationship partners, and that realtionships are crazy. SO there is some coonditioning to think in this way in general.I don't see how that is dangerously sexist (in terms of realistic power relationshiops).</i><br /><br />I agree that it is normal among men to call women many negative things, "crazy", "insane", and "bipolar" being among the nicer terms men use when speaking negatively about women.<br /><br />Women, on the other hand, do not tend to use as many negative terms about men, and tend not to call men names that appear to be psychiatric diagnoses. In my experience whites judge people of color in terms of their "level of sanity" where people of color do not do this, as a rule and common practice, to whites.<br /><br />That it is normal for men, and you specifically identify straight men, to do this, only means sexism is normal. That someone happens normally is no argument that it isn't sexist or that it isn't dangerous. More on this follows. That straight men "in relationship" to women tend to want to call them crazy also doesn't make the name-calling not sexist.<br /><br />And, this is where it gets confusing to lots of men and whites, in my experience: let me know if this is confusing to you.<br /><br />Let's say women and men, people of color and whites, call each other "crazy" just as often. That too doesn't mean that when men do it to women it isn't sexist, and it doesn't make it part of institutional sexism for women to identify men that way because the speech acts aren't part of living in a female supremacist society. Similarly, if whites call people of color crazy, that is part of institutionalised racism, but if people of color call whites crazy, there are no "POC supremacist" institutions supported by that happening.<br /><br />Please also read the following post on being in denial about what is and is not sexist in men's "acts of language":<br /><br /><a href="http://radicalprofeminist.blogspot.com/2010/07/white-dudes-not-in-denial-john.html" rel="nofollow">http://radicalprofeminist.blogspot.com/2010/07/white-dudes-not-in-denial-john.html</a><br /><br />I look forward to knowing if that discussion shifts your perspective on this.Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-27385043219022595192010-07-30T18:33:42.067-04:002010-07-30T18:33:42.067-04:00Intresting, here is my take, I didn't see any...Intresting, here is my take, I didn't see anything overtly sexist in the FB conversation. Calling a women crazy, tends to be normal among men, and for straight men, that often comes from the reality that women are relationship partners, and that realtionships are crazy. SO there is some coonditioning to think in this way in general.I don't see how that is dangerously sexist (in terms of realistic power relationshiops). The other thing is that there was vigourous debate between the parties involved, pointing to the fact that the males had enough repesct for women to take the argument seriously. Are the two men friends who are arguing with women who are not as good of friends, are thier other dynamics to this beside men vs. women and the reality of patriarcy. Frankly if his is an example of sexism in our generation I think thinks are looking great, the men clearly felt they had to respond to the women (true misognysts feel that to be degrading), and thier did not appear to be any power disparities brought on by partiarcy in the conversaions, all those invovled had eqaul power (except of course the guy whose wall it was, he has the power o delete things). patriarchy is real, though significantly diminished, but I think this is a very poor example of it.M. Tajbakhshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15066742081227528291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-81208773046052765062010-07-10T03:59:13.664-04:002010-07-10T03:59:13.664-04:00Hi Jha,
I really appreciate you stopping by, read...Hi Jha,<br /><br />I really appreciate you stopping by, reading, and letting me know what you thought. I hope to see you around here more often, or to meet up elsewhere.<br /><br />Cheers.Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-70171652208789469622010-07-09T08:18:52.159-04:002010-07-09T08:18:52.159-04:00Nicely done, dude! These guys always have somethin...Nicely done, dude! These guys always have something to maintain through their sexism. I cannot think of any other reason why, when other people are reasonable in pointing out their bullshit, they are so invested in defending themselves.Jhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985629384463009968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-13296966042292150852010-06-29T18:19:27.744-04:002010-06-29T18:19:27.744-04:00Hi Beth,
I'm honored and thrilled to have it ...Hi Beth,<br /><br />I'm honored and thrilled to have it among my fav quotes! :)Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-54354474781113657952010-06-29T18:12:18.577-04:002010-06-29T18:12:18.577-04:00I'm honored that you posted my quote! :o)
-B...I'm honored that you posted my quote! :o) <br /><br />-BethBethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06118725164404289375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-27376860593692631532010-06-29T13:38:27.033-04:002010-06-29T13:38:27.033-04:00Hi Aileen,
When industrialised, corporatised, and...Hi Aileen,<br /><br />When industrialised, corporatised, and otherwise white male supremacy-impacted men see trees they only see one thing: lumber. <br /><br />Similarly with all Life. Including with women. Men see the misuses to which women can be put for men's use, abusively.Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-33705653955981454422010-06-29T13:32:06.699-04:002010-06-29T13:32:06.699-04:00Hi Beth,
That's surely it in a patriarchal nu...Hi Beth,<br /><br />That's surely it in a patriarchal nutshell, isn't it!?<br /><br />And your quote... goes right to my fav quotes section on the right side of this blog!!! LOVE IT!!!!!<br /><br /><3 JulianJulian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-28874012660152670422010-06-29T03:32:53.179-04:002010-06-29T03:32:53.179-04:00These guys can't see the Forrest for the trees...These guys can't see the Forrest for the trees can they?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-84525952151864746212010-06-28T23:37:41.121-04:002010-06-28T23:37:41.121-04:00Bravo Nicki and Julian, thank you for your attempt...Bravo Nicki and Julian, thank you for your attempt to hold these men accountable. <br /><br />When I was single, I always had to deal with the following type of crap from heterosexual men:<br /><br />"Guy A" approaches me and we start a conversation. Fairly early on, "Guy A" asks the following question:<br /><br />Guy A: "What do you do for a living?"<br /><br />Beth: "I am a social worker at a shelter for battered women and their children."<br /><br />Guy A: "Oh so I guess that you hate men and want to castrate us all."<br /><br />Beth: "I'm ending this conversation, good-bye." I turn and walk away.<br /><br />Later when I walk past "Guy A" and his friends, I hear, "She's obviously a crazy dyke bitch, fuck her, man!" <br /><br />I had the AUDACITY to reject "Guy A" because of his stupid/sexist response to my profession and then he and his friends use sexist/homophobic language to verbally abuse me. So tragically TYPICAL! <br /><br />Feel free to quote me here- If I hated men, I would treat men the way that men treat women! <br /><br />Thank you again... <br /><br />BethBethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06118725164404289375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-81323977259467974562010-06-28T14:35:30.682-04:002010-06-28T14:35:30.682-04:00The thing is, Jennifer, how many examples of this ...The thing is, Jennifer, how many examples of this CRAP do these misogynists needs in order to see it? Don't they hear each other doing the same exact things: blaming women for everything and always letting themselves off the hook?<br /><br />Thank goodness Nicki called them out in a way they couldn't possible ("rationally") describe as "angry".<br /><br />Geesh. Men... (I don't know HOW I live with myself!!)Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-78501624058711907942010-06-28T13:40:02.301-04:002010-06-28T13:40:02.301-04:00An excellent example of male irrationality posing ...An excellent example of male irrationality posing as 'rationality' because male supremacy always claims to speak the truth and woe betide any woman who dares to challenge a man on this issue.<br /><br />This is precisely why man = default human whereas woman = inferior being who is always viewed/perceived from the male perspective.<br /><br />Not forgetting men's arrogance and huge egos which must be constantly massaged by women and when a woman dares to put herself first and the man/men second then suddenly the woman is enacting mythical misandry.<br /><br />The worst crime any woman can commit is to ignore men and/or to end a relationship with him. Patriarchy tells men they are the ones who know everything and they are the ones who decide when, where and how their male ownership of a woman will cease.<br /><br />Women know your place - it is firmly under the heel of arrogant men such as this male or so he imagines.JENNIFER DREWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02112807166372869685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-50333674362064602902010-06-28T11:57:34.581-04:002010-06-28T11:57:34.581-04:00Hi Nicki,
YOU are AWESOME! :)Hi Nicki,<br /><br />YOU are AWESOME! :)Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-25962002644097779112010-06-28T11:56:23.440-04:002010-06-28T11:56:23.440-04:00Awesome!Awesome!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com