tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post3921866679484838923..comments2024-03-13T11:14:26.768-04:00Comments on A Radical Profeminist: So a U.S. Buddhist Jew and a U.S. Palestinian Christian sit down to talk...Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-61166996023991645432009-10-10T04:16:04.717-04:002009-10-10T04:16:04.717-04:00For me, as a Buddhist and a Jew, the goal of life ...For me, as a Buddhist and a Jew, the goal of life is not to get somewhere allegedly up above the Earth after I die but is rather to live life here and now, fighting with the oppressed for liberation from human kingdoms (patriarchies), which is exactly what I understand Jesus to have done. I understand Jesus to be a Jewish man preaching Jewish spiritual lessons often through parables that were not meant to be understood literally ever. Jews do not hold to the notion of "one way of viewing things"--nor did Jesus as a practicing Jew.<br /><br />Historically, Jews told history differently than did the non-Jewish followers of Jesus who later called themselves Christians. Jews, generally, understood history as story-telling. Those who later called themselves Christians grossly distorted what Jesus was talking about, in part because they took the word of someone like John, who lived 100 years after Jesus, to be more spiritually significant than what Jesus himself is alleged to have said. <br /><br />Patriarchal Christians drew from incomplete stories, purging from the story of Jesus the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary Magdelene, in the book now known as the New Testament.<br /><br />They grossly distorted it by literalising everything that is said to have come from Jesus's lips. And most of that has been shown to be not what Jesus said. And that has been agreed upon by many Christian scholars--Christians, not anyone of any other faith traditions.<br /><br />I think what Jesus said is largely ignored or misunderstood by most Christians I know, but not all. I think white Episcopal <a href="http://www.johnshelbyspong.com/" rel="nofollow">Bishop John Shelby Spong</a> has a deep and wise understanding of Jesus, and I recommend his books to any white Christian who cares about Christianity and who prosyletises to me.<br /><br />Without having any way to back up this claim, I don't believe Jesus wouldn't give a [----] if people prayed to him, or Muhammad, Allah, HaShem, or G-d, to any of the Hindu and African Gods and Goddesses, to the Goddess Herself, or to the Earth, or if they instead meditated as their primary spiritual practice. <br /><br />Although it was written into the NT later, I don't belief Jesus was at all concerned with people worshipping <i>him</i>. He seemed far more concerned with the Romans oppressing his people, and how such oppression can result in political corruption among the oppressed. He seemed far more concerned, in his life, with standing with those who are cast out by the most socially powerful.<br /><br />Jesus, the Jew, is a hero of mine. What Christians have done to his story is incomprehensible and abhorrent to me.<br /><br />You may preach wherever you like in the world where you find a welcoming ear, but you may not perpetrate your genocidal beliefs here without being seriously challenged.Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-48443477756697439702009-10-10T04:15:53.121-04:002009-10-10T04:15:53.121-04:00I know people, women, who march in the street for ...I know people, women, who march in the street for an end to rape. That is dangerous, no?<br /><br />You are obviously speaking about the "danger" of not believing in Jesus as Christ. For you that's a danger, due to your worldview, beliefs, faith, and experience. Can you accept that it is not "dangerous" for others to believe differently than that?<br /><br />Frankly, I resent the implication you make here that it is "dangerous" to not be Christian, and that those who don't register this "danger" need to be warned by you as if it were "a danger". I find that attitude arrogant and incredibly self-serving, also profoundly racist, heterosexist, and misogynistic, anti-Semitic, anti-Islamic, and utterly disrespectful of everyone who is not Christian.<br /><br />The Christian proselytising and evangelising of the white West imposing its most popular and pro-capitalistic faith tradition onto others is evil and genocidal, to me and goes completely against anything Jesus did in his lifetime. When white Christians rise up, en masse, and renounce their racist ways, their genocidal actions, their pro-capitalist practices, and admit that G-d, should one exist, is not male, then I may begin to be interested in what Christians have to say about Christianity. Until such time I seriously wish that Christians would just shut up about their beliefs. We Jews keep our beliefs to ourselves. Jesus was a Jew: he spoke only to his people. Please do the same.<br /><br />And why does it follow that if something is true that you'd want people to know it, especially if it concerns what happens to us after we die, which no living person knows with any certainty--unless they are lying? You can have your faith, of course. I welcome you to hold tight to it. But as soon as you speak about it to me, or to anyone else as if it should be their truth, I will call you a blasphemer, an a perpetrator of evil.<br /><br />That fact that Jesus preached that "the kingdom of G-d is within you" (Luke 17, KJV) leads me to wonder what Christians think heaven is and where it is. (part three follows)Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-40230332998312384012009-10-10T04:14:52.730-04:002009-10-10T04:14:52.730-04:00To Anonymous above,
Re:
Christians don't prea...To Anonymous above,<br /><br />Re:<br /><i>Christians don't preach because they are insecure. Christians preach because they truly believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven, and if it's true than that's certainly something you want people to know. If somebody you know were about to do something really dangerous you would warn them about it right?</i><br /><br />Your assessment of why Christians preach is not my experience, and how could you possibly know why ALL Christians preach? Have you spoken with all Christians? Did the Catholic priests/rapers of children preach for the reasons you say, or were they trying to gain access to children?<br /><br />Do the Christian husbands who rape and batter and control their wives and children preach to those they abuse because of the reason you say, or because it is one other way to mind-fuck those they wish to dominate?<br /><br />You are aware, I hope, of the propensity of seemingly "good-meaning" white Christians who, in fact, used the New Testament to conquer and destroy people of color around the world? If you are not, please read <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Conquest-Sexual-Violence-American-Genocide/dp/0896087433" rel="nofollow"><i>Conquest: Sexual Violence and American Indian Genocide</i></a>, by Andrea Smith, as well as <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Yurugu-African-Centered-Critique-European-Cultural/dp/0865432481/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255161072&sr=1-1" rel="nofollow"><i>Yurugu: An African-Centered Critique of European Cultural Thought and Behavior</i></a>, by Marimba Ani.<br /><br />I will agree that SOME Christians do preach because they believe Jesus is the only way to heaven. But I have known most Christians to be very shaky and unsure of their beliefs, of their faith, including Mother Teresa, and people who are Christian around me behave as though "If only you believed what I believe, it might help me believe it too". That's my experience of MANY white Christians. Too many to count, but certainly most of them come across that way, not as people who have love and a desire for justice and peace in their heart. I know many white Christians extremely well, and they speak of their insecurities in this regard. So I'm not just projecting something onto them that I wish to be true. They admit it.<br /><br />And as for your question, my answer is: No, if someone I knew were about to do something dangerous, how I would respond would depend largely on how I understood their own agency, will, and spiritual beliefs to be operating in their lives. I wouldn't be so arrogant or presumptuous as to seek out others to make them think "my truth" has to be their truth too. I have a friend who throws bottles at neo-Nazis in Europe. That is dangerous, no? Should he not do it? (part two follows)Julian Realhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933612851144914687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6744114065733119575.post-3566052069798241552009-10-09T08:45:28.793-04:002009-10-09T08:45:28.793-04:00Christians don't preach because they are insec...Christians don't preach because they are insecure. Christians preach because they truly believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven, and if it's true than that's certainly something you want people to know. If somebody you know were about to do something really dangerous you would warn them about it right? I'll admit, Christians are notorious for being hypocritical or judgemental. But true Christianity is about being morally straight in a world full of evil. Why people feel threatened by a religion that encourages humility and service is beyond me. The basis of Christian ethics are even comparable to the ethics of Buddhism, and are the same as Judaism, as we share the Holy Tanakh. You don't have to agree with Christianity, but please do not criticize those who wish to share what they believe. I understand that it is difficult from a Jewish standpoint to fully understand the concept of evangelism (many Christians don't either), as the Jewish people are truly a race and therefore do not seek converts. But Christians believe that the news about Jesus is relevant to everyone, that the world is G-d's chosen people, and he wants all people to come to him. I'm not telling you to be a Christian or even support Christianity, but please consider the fact that we all want to do the right thing, and Christians are trying their best all over the world to see to it that they can look forward to a new life of peace. I admire so many things about Judaism and Buddhism, and I think that all religions can learn something from each other. So it's important to keep an open mind. I'm sorry if this is irrelevent to the post, I'll admit I didn't read the entire thing. But it's something worth mentioning, anyway. Maybe someone who needs too see it will see it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com